Need fleet of equipment for new operation

[farmerjim]

the 24t and 214t jd balers you list are older models, and aren't very high capacity machines. we bale w/ a 24t and for our small family operation it works very well. the 336 and 346 are higher capacity machines, i think the 336 would probably be your best choice out of the deere balers. as for the nh models 273 model was a very popular machine and many are still in use again an older machine and probably not very high capacity. i'm not too familiar w/ the 310/315 but a few people in my area have them. i worked for a guy who baled w/ a 320 this season a few times def a high capacity machine, and a large machine so if you had smaller fields just be aware. that thing would just eat hay, it helped he had an 80hp tractor. performance wise w/ the rakes i think the best bet is a rotary as they seem to leave a nice fluffy windrow and will aid some in the dry time, the bar rakes work well but "rope" the hay into a windrow and you really can't rake very fast w/ them esp in alfalfa as they tend to knock the leaves off going too fast. depending on your field size if you do a bar rake i would get a tandem set up it will take about 1/2 the time a single bar rake or rotary would. you said you were from upstate ny so w/ the way weather rolls in out that way time is of the essence during the hay season.

 

[art]

It is good that you started looking early as some of the styles of machines that you seem comfortable with are not the best for good production.

A rotary rake is good for about four hours of drying time according to our customers over the rollbar style which will also rope the hay making it harder on the balers and choppers if you hit a lump in the windrow.

A pan style of kicker the style that is used on the deere balers is a hinderence for production. We know because they did use them on the NH baler and anything over the smallest models were held back from the recycle speed of the pan.

You also might want to look at some of the older IH series tractors for good value and being mechanic freindly as they are very simple and easy to work on in all areas.

You didn't mention any other tractors but you should have a couple more on your list for running the rakes and tedders as well as spreader. Those 4020's were not gentle on the fuel bills although they are quite popular on farms for a general purpose tractor because of being easy to run.

 

[Barry Bowen]

Sounds like you have been getting a lot of good answers here, but I will add my two cents here. Make sure you get a subscription to Lancaster Farming. It is the bible of sales and suppliers in PA, NY, MD, OH. If you cannot find stuff in that paper you do not need it. They do have a web site, Lancaster Farming: Ephrata, PA | Lancaster Farming

There are only two kinds of tractors to consider IH and JD. Look around at the farms in your area and do a quick head count, and you will see that red and green are the vast majority. This is for a reason, they hold up the best and PARTS ARE AVAILABLE! You may have to know where to look, but you can always find what you need, some new and some used. Example, Bates out in Ohio does strictly IH parts, and there is such a demand for some old parts and castings that they have started making them new again.

Now lets talk about tractor design and maintenance. Every JD model is distinct when you are talking anything of size. Their 20, 30, and 40 series utilities share a basic trans and rear (twin stick, 8 speed, with park gear), but bigger tractor say 3020, 4020 etc drive lines are unique to each. IH on the other hand has a clutch back design that is identical for the 06, 26, 56, and 66 series, until you get up into the bigger ones like the 1466 where things like the brakes do change and the basic trans changes also, but you will not want anything that big. JD internalizes many of the major service items, and IH has external access. Example PTO rebuild, with a 4020 you will split the tractor, with a 966 you pull the pto out the back and you can have it done in hours instead of days. Brakes are another example, JD remove rear wheel and axle shafts to get to brakes and spend 500 a side in Parts, IH, remove 6 bolts and spend 100 in parts and your done.

Sizing of tractors, to pull a discbine especially on hill, 100HP is what you really need to get the job done safely. I pulled my 9' discbine with 80HP and it was too slow and heated up when I tried to push it. Now I pull with a 100 turned up to around 125HP and I have actually pulled it at 10mph (did not do for long, just did to see if I could and it worked well, cut was good and that was 110 bale to the acre first cut)

Rotary rakes and star tedders are the only way to go, period end of story! Wire wheel rakes are cheap for a reason, they pick up green material into the dry hay unless you are working on completely level ground. Use a rotary rake once and you will never go back. Rotarys stand the hay up and really do a great job.

Balers, Green or Red(NH), either is fine. I run around 20K through two 336's. They are fine balers, if you know how to run them. Like all bales they have their best operating procedures. 346 has a wider pick up and usually go for 1-2 K more than a 336. I have baled up to 200 an hour with a 336 with people on the wagon and I could stay in the seat and keep moving the whole time. Your speed with a baler is not determined by how fast your ground speed is, but rather how many bales are coming out the back. Usually doing 200 an hour is in first gear about as slow a ground speed as I can run, but the rows were thick and the hay was nice. Round bales do not save much time over squares, but take less people to do, and all is done from a tractor seat. Rounds can be stored outside, but keep them off the gound with pallets, and cover in good tarps, but keep ends open for ventilation. Harbor Freight has some nice hay tarps that work very well. They are designed to stacking as a 6 bale triangle and as long as you need. Run the tie down ropes on top of the skid in the spaces, and then run plastic pipe down through the loops on the tarps and tie down on every bales or 3' or so.

Most importantly, DO NOT BORROW ANY MONEY! The price of milk is extremely volatile, and there will be many times you may have enough to live on, but not make equipment payments. Good luck.

 

[JasG]

Barry:

Your advice is sound except the part about JD trans. The "twin stick" or I assume you mean quad range didn't come around until the 30 series. The 20 series has a 8 speed syrco range that was a single stick on the dash. The quad range was a 2 stick, 4 speeds forward, 2 reverse, with 4 ranges and you could "toggle" between 1-2, 3-4, R1-R2. All of the trans had a parking gear. 20 series up through today you can get some kind of power shift, 20-40 series were all 8 speed powershift.

Another tractor that would be a good choice would be a JD 4000, similar to a 4020, without a diff lock. Lighter and slightly faster.

 

[bill in ny]

barry, maybe he can't afford the green and yellow paint! i know i couldn't. in my area there is also alot of fords, massey's, and even more and more big kubota's.

 

[Hoosier Hay Man]

Also, is there any performance difference between a bar rake, a rotary rake and a wheel rake?

I have a JD rolla bar rake which is not my favorite. rolla bars often rope the windrow and slow the drying procees as compared to a rotary. I have a Kuhn rotary rake and tedder combo 3pt mount. I love the 3point mounted rake as I can lift over windrows. It also makes a fluffier windrow which drys faster.

I own a NH315. It has been a very good baler and it never misses a bale. It is simple to work on and great parts availibility. I have used NH 658 and 648 Rd balers as well. I have been very pleased with NH hay equipment.

I would suggest a mower/conditioner for better dry down. Disc mowers I here are more productive as they can cut more acres per hr. I use a sickle mower conditioner and works fine though. It is a NH 489.

I have a 1975 IH 1466 cab (140hp pto) and 1974 John Deere 4430 cab(120hp pto). They are still very strong tractors. A 1466 can be bought from $6,000 to $10,000 range and a 4430 form $12,000 to $18,000 range. I do like the John Deere much better. They are more tractor than required for hay making, but the extra HP and weight are nice. I do use them to work ground as well.

A smaller loader tractor (utility) would be a nice addition of at least 50 to 60hp. It could rake and bale if needed. There are plenty of quality options out there new and used.

I bought all this used. JD 4430, NH 315 baler, JD rake, Kuhn Rotary rake, NH 489 Haybine. It all cost me $15,450. It was accumilated over the last 8 years. It was bought at auctions, individuals and dealers. Most of this equipment is from the seventies and eighties, but still very productive.

 

[Waldershrek]

After talking with some other people they advise using rotary rakes for the same reasons you mentioned.

 

[Waldershrek]

What is this pole coming from the thrower for? Our old 336 had hydraulic controls, I assume this is some sort of manual crank?

 

[JasG]

The pole adjusts the flow going to the kicker cylinder. More flow equals a longer harder kick. The controls you may remember are for the tilt of the pan, newer machines used electric motors to adjust distance and tilt.

 

[Waldershrek]

I see.....the setup we used to have had a set of controls clamped to the right fender with all the controls for that stuff and the the liquid application on the bales.