Need Help!!! JD 4310 transmission troubles

rockyridgefarm · Feb 3, 2004

I'm a little surprised to read the comment about the 4000ten series of cuts to be prone to any more problems than any other series of tractors.... 

You mean this one? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 Dang Deeres these days. Did I call it or what on this series being problem prone! 

This is just the refrain to the song... A little surprising from an employee of a Deere dealership!

From the bio:
Occupation: Lot boy & parts department at JD store/Also a student in last year of High School

You do the math...

CraigG · Feb 4, 2004

Thanks for all the posts. I did talk to Mark Brucker today and he said the area Deere rep will be at K.C. Canary next week. So I will wait till then. Also, it appears that K.C. Canary reads this forum. I got a message from Jason in the service department about my post

I have to say that I have been nothing but happy with everyone from K.C. Canary. They treat me just like I bought 15 Ag tractors from them when in reality this is my first tractor and I have asked more than my fair share of questions. If you want a JD you can't go wrong with K.C. Canary.

I'm not saying that there is problem with JD tractors or the 4010 series tractors for that matter. I think the tractor I have has way too many problems for a brand new tractor. Also, I am confident that all my problems have been fixed or will be fixed by the service department. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have had no problems at all with their JDs. Those people got what they paid for. I did not! The tractor has been back 4 times and needs to go for a fifth. If this was a car it would have been bought back by the manufacturer already.

JerryG,
I disagree with you about spliting the tractor. I feel it does effect the long term life of the tractor. When machinery is assembled in a factory most times the assembly is automated and assembly jigs are used to exact tolerences. This is not true when the tractor is disassembled and reassembled in a service deparment. Everytime you take anything apart you shorten its life span. Metal and plastic both have elastic properties and subject to fatigue a failure. If a dealer had two new 4310s (same price) on the lot and told you one is perfect and the other one has been taken apart and put back together twice by the service department which one would you buy? I say my $25000 entitles me to the perfect one. We are not talking about a minor part being replaced here. This is the hydro transmission.
Also, the seat of my pants told me that when the front wheels were in the wide position the tractor was much more stable on the hills. I also tested this by driving sideways on the hill very slowly and rocked the tractor. With the front wheels out the tractor did not budge, with the front wheels in a was able to rock the tractor alot.

Rockyridge(Mike),
I do not have tire ballast because one of the main reasons for this purchase was to mow. This would make the tractor way to heavy down by the water. It would leave huge ruts. I do have a rear ballast box filled with gravel though and I do use this most of the time.

Yellowsocks(Nick),
Like I said above, I am not complaining about JD tractors as a whole. Just my tractor in particular.

Kyle,
Thanks for the welcome. I have posted before when I was trying to figure out which tractor to buy. For some reason I was deleted from the forum. The lag in pedal response was not there before the transmission was replaced. This could be a break-in issue. Also hitting both pedals was suggsted as being a problem to me by the dealer. However, this has also happened while I am driving forward and the tractor just stops even though my foot is still on the pedal.

Brent,
My slight incline measures 15 on my tilt meter. The loader was full of gravel and was about 10 inches off the ground. I did take the loader off to mow the one time I actually got to mow with it.

Craig,
Nice name. I'm glad to see you also had the problem with the 4310 and the 60 inch MMM rubbing your turf tires. I think JD told you that it cause more stress on the axle because they know this mower does not fit this tractor properly even though it is reccomended by JD in all their literature and dealer manuals. I would not have bought this mower if this was disclosed to me. As for the sub zero weather we have been having and how this effects oil and fuel, I have the oil heater and plug in the tractor 30 mins before I use it. Also the diesel does have the additive in it.

It's getting real old making my monthly payment of $555 on this tractor. Everytime I send in the check the tractor either is not here (it's in the shop), or I just mowed my property with my push mower, or like last month I was shoveling snow that I should have been able to use my tractor to clear.

Craig /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

JerryG · Feb 4, 2004

Craig,
When did you decide that you wanted a different tractor?

del · Feb 4, 2004

I don't know if the loadmatch would affect stop and go
but the motion match certainly does, with that engaged
the tractor will coast when you let go of pedal and
hesitate when starting off. I like using it for that
reason, a lot easier on the old spine.

Recalls are a fact of life, be happy they even do this.
These are pretty complicated pieces of equipment and also
for safety reasons if something turns up (like in this
case) they really want to take care of it.

I am surprised though that they didn't check the recall
bulletins before splitting the trans the first time,
I'm also surprised you already hadn't received a notice
of this as it's been out for sometime. (previous posts
on this forum)

I don't know if I agree with your analysis of factory
versus in-the-shop trans to engine hookup, or anything
else for that matter, depends on who's doing what.

Don't assume that the factory employee is a dedicated
thoughtful, careful worker. Many are but I bought a
Ford van that had the clutches in the trans assembled
out of order. Worked about 800 miles and then started
disintegrating.

Funny thing is Ford wouldn't send a new one, they sent
every single part but the case and the dealer assembled
it. Was working great 75K later...

I've been there on the multi-K purchase sitting in your
garage leaking or otherwise SCREWED UP. It's more of an
emotional thing then anything else, especially if you are
making payments. How the dealer treats you will be the
salve or the salt that is put on your "wound".

Another poster was planning on going with the 4210 tires
as he was concerned about stability. More mower clearance
around tires but less to from mower to ground. Depends on your terrain I guess.

I'm surprised switching the R3's would make any difference.
It only makes less than 2" total difference on the R4s,
and then you get to have fun accessing the valve stem.

Doesn't matter anyway, if you look in your operators manual
where it describes how much ballast to use with a loader it
says LOADER USE NOT APPROVED if rear tread width (center of
tire to center of tire) is under 59". This is impossible to
do even with R1s, the R4s are 42 and 43.8.

The book provides guidance on ballast if your rear tread
width is above 59" but no guidance below that, just
LOADER USE NOT APPROVED. I still haven't gotten an answer
from JD on this other then a form reply. I've been around
similar equipment a bit and know the safety drill but this
is the stupidest statement I have ever seen in a publication.

Either it's a misprint, which is unforgivable in a safety
section that is in a manual that has been out 2 years, or
JD is simply wiping away all liability by declaring ALL
of their 4210 4310 4410 tractors to be unuseable with a
loader.

Would be an interesting court case though, since the dealers
are all selling these tractors with loaders and 90% of them
on lots have R4s on them. The R1's will go out to 57
I think, which REALLY does help.

Flat smooth ground, going slow, load low, no problem. Any
slope use and that's where the problem could arise./forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gifDE L/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Tractors4u · Feb 4, 2004

( I think JD told you that it cause more stress on the axle because they know this mower does not fit this tractor properly even though it is reccomended by JD in all their literature and dealer manuals. )

Actually I have seen this advice given out many times. I am not an engineer but It has been explained to me that by flipping the front wheels out wide puts added stress on the front axle steering joints.

Woodbeef · Feb 4, 2004

Ok then why not trade your MMM for a RFM then???? It should solve your stability problems.

JerryT · Feb 4, 2004

I agree with CraigG on two points. I reversed my front wheels shortly after getting my 4400. The tractor is clearly more stable on hills that I mow (15-20 degrees)!! Reversing the wheels adds 1-2" per side (as I recall) and the additional stress resulting from this is a ratio of the old total width to the new total width. I am not at the farm so I can't measure this, but if for example the old witdh was 58" and the new is 62". This gives about 7%. Any design engineer will carefully calculate the stress factors, then multiply by 2, when designing or selecting components. JD recommendation is to cover the problem with the 60" mower, not a concern for the axel or bearing.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 4, 2004

You have some legtimate issues. I still stick by that in the long run, KC Canary will get you taken care of. Heck, even we Okies know they are a great dealership. Both Jason and Mark have helped me, personally. They sure didn't have to. If you had your machine split by them, it'll be as good, or better than new. JD is in a better position to take care of them because they do a lot of good for JD. So, I'd be real cordial with them (hard to do with that kinda money tied up in a problem machine) but let them know I want it fixed (which you have)

I hope it works out well for you. I bet it will.

rockyridgefarm · Feb 4, 2004

Anyway, I called K.C. Canary and they came and got the tractor. From what I understand since one side of the housing was tight and the other loose there was uneven pressure on the gasket causing it to fail. The tractor was split and the gasket replaced.


I meant to note this earlier:

A LOT of dealers might have re-torqued those bolt without splitting the machine. You would have felt better about it:

"It was nothing, all we did was re-torque those loose bolts. Everything is fine"

Hopefully, you would have seen the seeping fluid before it all ran out through the damaged gasket.

Instead, they took the initiative to just go ahead and make it right, before another problem happened. But "We had to split the machine" sounds a whole lot worse. But, again, it was KC Canary. Not Bill-Bob's Tires, Bait and Tracters. My buddy bought one there. That's a whole story to itself.

As to doing the recall while they had it the first time, I am sure they would have, if it had been possible. Deere paid for both repairs, and I am sure they are careful on administering that.

I have said this before: It sure is strange that companies like John Deere have recalls, and everyone moans about their quality. Have you ever heard of a recall on a Jinma or DongFeng? Few will suggest that they are in the same quality stratosphere, yet there never seems to be an issue that would warrant a recall. Go figure. (BTW I am just using those brands as examples, not trying to say they are bad.)

 I would probally want a non ehydro transmission like on the 4110 or 4115 I don't know; is the problem related to the electronics? I cannot beleive how much I have grown to like them. And I really haven't heard widespread issues with them.

DAP · Feb 4, 2004

Rockyridge, your point about KC splitting the machine to replace the gasket when they might not of had too is a good one. I wonder if they conveyed that to the owner of the machine.

However ...

(
I have said this before: It sure is strange that companies like John Deere have recalls, and everyone moans about their quality. Have you ever heard of a recall on a Jinma or DongFeng? Few will suggest that they are in the same quality stratosphere, yet there never seems to be an issue that would warrant a recall. Go figure. (BTW I am just using those brands as examples, not trying to say they are bad.)
)

Perhaps JD is doing the very same thing by issuing recalls at all in the first place.

Surely, you can't be saying that because Jinma or DongFeng don't recall means they don't have engineering issues. YeeHaw Ma, take a look at thisy here! Perhaps they actually do have issues but don't bother with the recalls. Engineering is an artform. Thus, there is no such thing as "perfect" or "right". One example of an ingenius engineering implementation does not mean that an equally functional implementation is impossible. It may not be sensible but it is not impossible as in "Iffin it taint broke, don't fix it".

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Splittin a tractor sure sounds spooky though,I must admit, at least superficially. It shouldn't seem to be an introduced corruption into the machine by default though in and of itself.

For the owner, not knowing what, if any, conseqences there might be as a result of these loose bolts is the real issue and I don't envy the person who has to ultimately decide if there is or isn't.

My centavos.