Need Help on Hydraulic Issue

[SSdoxie]

Try this, I think it will work. Make the cylinder on the right side single acting only leaving the hose off at the base end. When you move joystick to left it will pressurize the rod end on left cylinder only, angling it left. When you move joystick the the right (dump/regen) it will pressuriz both ends of the left cylinder plus the rod end of the right so extra force of that rod end should allow it to move. If it works then put a vent on base end of open cylinder port.

 

[KOLBRNR]

Hey Russ. I have regular [power] dump and regen dump inherent in my valve - chosen by the amount I move the lever. Your valve sounds as if it only has regen dump. Pls try this: Press your bucket flat to the ground, center the valve, and then try to dump by pushing the lever rightward -- brakes OFF. Mine will tip the bucket forward and lift the tractor. Does yours at least almost lift it? It should I think, because I didnt know they made any loader valves that exclude the power dump. If it doesnt lift well go from there.
larry

Hi Larry.
Mine will lift the tractor skyward with no effort at all with the bucket on.
When I put the blade on it has more trouble lifting the tractor, but then it is lifting from about 1 1/2 feet farther out from the Quick Attach.

Russ

 

[KOLBRNR]

Well I think the solution is the same thing I posted earlier - T off of your lines for the angle cylinder and run hoses to both ends. Then they will behave exactly like the bucket cylinder and the problem should be solved. If you are feeding fluid to both ends of the cylinders it will not lock up. You have that small block on the plow bracket which would be a perfect point to T from. You just need to cross over these lines (T goes to far end of one, close end of the other). So a couple fittings and hoses, and you should be good.

Edit: BTW, the manual on my 723 loader says there is a non-regen position on the dump valve. There are 2 versions - the older one has the regular mode that is all the way to the right. So just barely opening it puts you in regen but full push is normal mode. The newer valve appears to be the exact opposite.

Hi
The angle cylinders are already teed off. That's the way it came from the factory. Not sure if you can see it here. I can take a close up if you want. They come into the rod end a tee off to the cap end of the opposite cylinder.

 

[KOLBRNR]

Try this, I think it will work. Make the cylinder on the right side single acting only leaving the hose off at the base end. When you move joystick to left it will pressurize the rod end on left cylinder only, angling it left. When you move joystick the the right (dump/regen) it will pressuriz both ends of the left cylinder plus the rod end of the right so extra force of that rod end should allow it to move. If it works then put a vent on base end of open cylinder port.

You know that just might work.

Russ

 

[SPYDERLK]

Good work around. That should work and give pretty good force. Indications are theres something wrong with the power dump on OPs valve.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

Hi Larry.
Mine will lift the tractor skyward with no effort at all with the bucket on.
When I put the blade on it has more trouble lifting the tractor, but then it is lifting from about 1 1/2 feet farther out from the Quick Attach.

Russ

So you have power dump. Good. So its not the loader valve - its something in the switched 2nd output of the diverter or the blade plumbing. Could it be the diverter has a piloted check valve? ... Or, is pressure going into it at the correct ports
larry

 

[dstig1]

Hi
The angle cylinders are already teed off. That's the way it came from the factory. Not sure if you can see it here. I can take a close up if you want. They come into the rod end a tee off to the cap end of the opposite cylinder.

I had to look real close, but I see it now. The cross-overs were hidden by the other hoses. It looked like it was just crossing-over the back ports to each other.

To me that moves the problem upstream. Something must be restricting the regen flow. Could that block be doing it? Or the solenoid? Any one of these add some sort of check valve in them?

Also check out the photo of the manual I posted. You should have a position that allows you to avoid regen.

I will be curious to see how this works out...

 

[dstig1]

Hi
The angle cylinders are already teed off. That's the way it came from the factory. Not sure if you can see it here. I can take a close up if you want. They come into the rod end a tee off to the cap end of the opposite cylinder.

I had to look real close, but I see it now. The cross-overs were hidden by the other hoses. It looked like it was just crossing-over the back ports to each other.

To me that moves the problem upstream. Something must be restricting the regen flow. Could that block be doing it? Or the solenoid? Any one of these add some sort of check valve in them?

Also check out the photo of the manual I posted. You should have a position that allows you to avoid regen.

I will be curious to see how this works out...

 

[KOLBRNR]

So you have power dump. Good. So its not the loader valve - its something in the switched 2nd output of the diverter or the blade plumbing. Could it be the diverter has a piloted check valve? ... Or, is pressure going into it at the correct ports
larry

You mean that if I have a power dump it is not a regenerative system?
One pressure goes to A1 straight through to A2 and diverted to A3.
The other goes to B1 straight through to B2 and diverted to B3. It all seams quite simple except that it doesn't work.

Russ

 

[KOLBRNR]

I had to look real close, but I see it now. The cross-overs were hidden by the other hoses. It looked like it was just crossing-over the back ports to each other.

To me that moves the problem upstream. Something must be restricting the regen flow. Could that block be doing it? Or the solenoid? Any one of these add some sort of check valve in them?

Also check out the photo of the manual I posted. You should have a position that allows you to avoid regen.

I will be curious to see how this works out...

The block on the blade has 2 pressure relief valves on it in case you hit something. Like a safety so you don't break something.
If I switch the hoses at the block on the blade the blade will go to the right, as long as I move the lever to the curl position. This makes me think it is not the blade because I can get it to go either direction by switching the hoses.
It seams to something to do with the diverter valve itself, or the plumbing of it.
There is oil getting behind the spool in the spring area. We even removed the solenoid and put a head of a bolt in there to hold the spool permanently shifted. It done the same thing, no difference.
My hydraulic guy says it getting hydro-locked. A term I never heard before.

I would like him to figure it out but it's been three weeks now so I guess I need to do it myself.

Russ

 

[dstig1]

I suspected it might be a "cushion" block...

Have you looked into the non-regen position of your valve?

Also go to search all forums and type in regen and diverter. Start reading a bit. Here's a couple key ones.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/189563-third-function-problems.html

Check out the link JJ posted in post #14 on this one:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/155160-regen-single-acting-cyl.html

 

[KOLBRNR]

Thanks Dave I will start doing my homework now.

Russ

 

[KOLBRNR]

Just a quick update. I was talking to my hydraulic guy today. He assures me I do not have a regenerative system. Says we need to put a line back to drain behind the spool where the spring is. Says fluid is getting behind the spool causing it to hydo-lock.
Does this sound plausible?
He is going to call the engineer where they buy the valves and we will go from there. I will update when I know more.

Russ

 

[SPYDERLK]

Try the same push up trick you did earlier but operate the lever hard right quickly.
larry

 

[dstig1]

You have an LA853 loader, per your first post? I guarantee you have regen as that manual page I posted is from the loader manual for LA513/723/853 loaders. There is only one valve offered at a point in time (one for older models, one for newer ones), like it says. The regen is the second stop on the older valve, but the first stop on the newer valve.

 

[KOLBRNR]

Try the same push up trick you did earlier but operate the lever hard right quickly.
larry

Well I just did that and the tractor lifts faster than it does when I move it slowly. I played with it and I can feel a little detent and it moves faster after I pass that. However I really can't tell as the all move faster the farther I push the lever.

Russ

 

[SPYDERLK]

Well I just did that and the tractor lifts faster than it does when I move it slowly. I played with it and I can feel a little detent and it moves faster after I pass that. However I really can't tell as the all move faster the farther I push the lever.

Russ

Settled. You dont have regen. Something at the diverter or beyond. Do you have the diverter documentation ... or at least its model #?
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

You have an LA853 loader, per your first post? I guarantee you have regen as that manual page I posted is from the loader manual for LA513/723/853 loaders. There is only one valve offered at a point in time (one for older models, one for newer ones), like it says. The regen is the second stop on the older valve, but the first stop on the newer valve.

I dont understand how a valve with regen as the 1st stop could give you a controlled dump. It seems it would start to move quick and then slow to your choice of speed in the 2nd section. Sounds bad.
larry

 

[KOLBRNR]

I just read the manual that I have. Duh
It tells me that serial numbers higher than 50001 have one that dumps fast then slow (regular) as you move the lever farther right.

Valves with a number lower than 50000 have the other. It dumps slow (regular) then fast as you move the lever to the right.

My loader number is 558?? so I should have the first one. However this is not how my loader works. It works like the other one.
Just when I think I have the answer they change the question.

Russ

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I think you have your selector valve plumbed backwards. Look at the diagram on "STEP 3" in this link from SelectPlus: http://www.hydraulicstore.com/images/pdf/Trausch_Dynamics_Selectplus.pdf
Looking at the valve with the solenoid up, the inlets are on the left, the primary outlets are on the right, and the diverted outlets are where you have them. So primary flow should go from left to right and you have it plumbed from right to left. Mine is the cheapie from Baileys and a different manufacturer but it plumbs up just like the one in the link.