NEED HELP- WIRING CABIN:INVERTER PROBLEM

[schmism]

as for a recomendation for a real inverter

id go with a prosine.

PROSine Sinewave Power Inverters and Chargers

my advise would have been to get a RV inverter/charger/breaker pannel.

you could have considered the generator "shore" power.

i know the deal in my popup is a slick setup, built for chargeing batteries, supplying 12v for other appliances, and 120v breakers all in one box.

 

[BobRip]

Since your inverter won't run a skill saw plugged directly into it, it sounds like it is not performing properly. A skill saw shouldn't use more electricity than the refrigerator, fans and lights that you were powering before.
.

A skill saw (I think you mean a circular saw) can pull 10 amps or more when loaded and quite a bit on startup. This might be a tough load for an inverter to start.
I think your refrigerator pulls less than 100 watts while running.

 

[escavader]

could it be your batteries? not enough juice for the inverter? happens to us somestimes. coffee maker? get a press or drip filter, off grid living

I dont think so.I got them up to like 12.9volts,which has been normal full charge all along.The inverter kicks off at like 10 volts.The coffee maker has never worked on the inverters since all was new.With the fridge running and that on it will kick to fault every time.It is no big deal because im usually doing my morning charge up any how.GIVE UP THE MR COFFEE-NEVER
ALAN

 

[escavader]

Hi escavader,

My background is with NASA spacecraft assembly, 22 years. That does not give me any knowledge that most others do not have, just a little more of the "test it three (or thirty) times before putting it into service" mentality.

As a troubleshooting suggestion, you might try the following:
Try inverter and cord to each individual appliance/device.
Disconnect each power input, one at a time.
Disconnect each outlet breaker, one at a time.

The prices and availability of the newest invertors suggest an increase in inverter size might be a worthwhile consideration.

Without the ability to explain why, I got a gut feeling the problems might be more of a battery problem.

Rose is Rose

HI
I kick to fault mode even with all the breakers off and the main.I agree if i have to replace it im gonna go bigger,got to check out the link schimism gave me.-thank you

BOB RIP; iAGREE THE saw draws too much to test the inverter,the radio not enough,its all i had.
OPEN to all ideas,but i think hockey puck nailed it.Why would the inverter kick when the main is off?Because the neutral and ground are touching and they shouldnt.Gonna try that over the weekend.
Tally hoe your exactly right ill try switching the wires,if it dont work look at that inverter.
DOES ANYONE KNOW if there is an electric switch available ,that would automatically switch to battery when power stops from the generator?My owners manual says its not good to charge your batterys when using the inverter,although i admit having done it on a rainy night or two
ALAN

 

[techman]

Most of those low cost inverters do not have a hot and a neutral output coming out. Instead they have what is basically 60 volts on each blade. This makes tying the neutral and ground together a problem.

You need to get a "real" inverter to use hooked up to a panel such as you have.

paul

 

[schmism]

Instead they have what is basically 60 volts on each blade. This makes tying the neutral and ground together a problem.
paul

if you get that.... last one i put my meter on (a walmart cheepy) had 101v output on 12.8 V imput.

 

[tommu56]

escavader

All the trouble shoting so far was good.

I think you battery's voltage should be higher the best way to checkbattery charge is with an hydrometer.

I had a similar problem at my cabin and found the battery wouldent produce enough current

Put volt meter on battery read voltage

put small load on inverter (like raido) check battery voltage

add more load (work light) like 250 watt work light read voltage on battery again

you might have to add more load and check again.

I think you will see volltage drop drastically at one point.

try same test on your truck battery and see if it works

Another thing I saw in your pictures was a piece of aircraft cable for ground and an iron pipe it would be safer to use a regular ground rod and at least a #8 wire for ground (you want a low Impedance path to ground for fault)

My cabin is similar to yours no electric near by (12- 15 miles) and I use a battery for the car radio hooked to a 15 watt solar panel and a schanuer charger on generator. gas lights and frig and range
We run the generator at dinner time about 2 hrs on most days I am there I usually have a couple of batterys for my drill and saw to charge and do it then.

tom

 

[escavader]

Most of those low cost inverters do not have a hot and a neutral output coming out. Instead they have what is basically 60 volts on each blade. This makes tying the neutral and ground together a problem.

You need to get a "real" inverter to use hooked up to a panel such as you have.

paul

HI PAUL,
The inverter has served its intended purpose until now.Not looking to get to fancy,if i dont need to ,we are gonna get a gas fridge,when i can find a good cheapy.I just would like to have radios at night,a new ceiling fan i just installed,and mabey a night lite in each bedroom.The kero lanterns stink a little,have to crack a window.I definately will up grade if this one is toast though.
ALAN

 

[escavader]

escavader

All the trouble shoting so far was good.

I think you battery's voltage should be higher the best way to checkbattery charge is with an hydrometer.

I had a similar problem at my cabin and found the battery wouldent produce enough current

Put volt meter on battery read voltage

put small load on inverter (like raido) check battery voltage

add more load (work light) like 250 watt work light read voltage on battery again

you might have to add more load and check again.

I think you will see volltage drop drastically at one point.

try same test on your truck battery and see if it works

Another thing I saw in your pictures was a piece of aircraft cable for ground and an iron pipe it would be safer to use a regular ground rod and at least a #8 wire for ground (you want a low Impedance path to ground for fault)

My cabin is similar to yours no electric near by (12- 15 miles) and I use a battery for the car radio hooked to a 15 watt solar panel and a schanuer charger on generator. gas lights and frig and range
We run the generator at dinner time about 2 hrs on most days I am there I usually have a couple of batterys for my drill and saw to charge and do it then.

tom

HI TOM,
Never used a hydo meter ,will have to look for one.Iwas wondering how to tell if one might have a weak battery,when you had 6 hooked up in tandom like i do.Would that tool do the tric?.As you can see i keep a little distilled water around ,never had to add much though.
The iron pipe you refer to is actually a ground rod i bought at home depot,it probably looks funny because i drove it down 5 ft and hit ledge,and cut it off with a grinder.Good eye on that cable ,it is the old atv winch cable i had,will see about finding somethinng else.
It aint so bad not having power to a back country retreat.I get sick of filling the generator with gas to keep the battery bank up with the fridge.Wont use half as muchwith a gas fridge.
ALAN

 

[BobRip]

I dont think so.I got them up to like 12.9volts,which has been normal full charge all along.The inverter kicks off at like 10 volts.The coffee maker has never worked on the inverters since all was new.With the fridge running and that on it will kick to fault every time.It is no big deal because im usually doing my morning charge up any how.GIVE UP THE MR COFFEE-NEVER
ALAN

To get to full charge you need 13.8 volts or a little higher for several hours (depending on depth of discharge). Watch the current and it should taper off to an amp or so to indicate full charge. Of course a hydrometer is good to. If you only have 12.9 volts while charging, you are not fully charged.

 

[tommu56]

ALAN

For the raido i use a car raido so it is off the batterys directly no invertor loss.


I would suggest looking at Home Power Magazine: Solar | Wind | Hydro | Design | Build it has alot of ideas.

With batterys in paralle you have to equilize the batterys by holding them at proper charge state for a long time.

link to equilizing http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/257/docserve.asp
tom

 

[kensfarm]

Looking at the picture of your battery bank.. those battery cables look half as thick as they should be.

 

[escavader]

Looking at the picture of your battery bank.. those battery cables look half as thick as they should be.

The wires in the pic is #4 UNDERGROUND trailer wire.They use it for feeding home entrance panels,including my 200 amp panel.They must be at least a quarter inch thick.Why are they not big enough to hook batterys togeather?
ALAN

 

[escavader]

HI ALL
The problem is fixed,inverter is working again.My wife and i drove up in the car,cause she knew id never stop talking about it.
I unhooked all the copper wires from the grounding panel,and isolated them from the white ones.Tryed it -still kicked to fault:
Ichanged out the main breaker ,and back fed through a 30.Tryed it still kicked to fault.
I unhooked all the wires from the line coming in.Inverter stayed on
I moved all my coppers back with the whites,isolated the copper from the feed line.Tryed it-still kicked to fault:
I unhooked the copper and let it hang in the air.Tryed it panel powered up,all worked fine
I will get some flack but i cut off the copper-PROBLEM SOLVED
All the outlets still have the extra ground protection,they are hooked up with the whites,which leads to the camp grounding rod.The generator is still grounded at the shed.Icant see that i need that wire for anything,unless mabey the cable underground should short or somethig?If that ever happens the inverter will kick,or the breaker on the generator should kick.Iaint worryed about it.Istill cant understand why it would work under generator power,but not inverter with that wire hooked up.
Every thing is working great under inverter power,including the new cieling fan in the cathederal ceiling.Im happy .Thanks for all the input
ALAN