Need opinions mon gas powered dump trucks

[Dmace]

The dealer selling that truck also has another GMC gasser and it does say right in the description "THE CHASSIS IS FROM THE PENSKE ONE-WAY RENTAL FLEET" so I would be cautious with these trucks. Looking at the picture showing the dump bed raised it does seem to be on it's own frame and not directly fastened to the truck frame so that is good.

Check TruckTrader also for more listings.

 

[LBrown59]

Are you thinking the the GVW under 26k will keep you out of a CLD? Because you will be required to have a CDL due to the trailer +load added to the truck GVW.

Diamondpilot is correct. A gas engine will really suck ... fuel that is. Probably 50% more fuel per mile. Diesels are generally built heavier and should last longer. but the prior owners habits will dictate condition to a large degree.

As long as your not doing it for hire CDL should not apply.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Look for a listing with a "double frame" chassis. Basically, visualize two pieces of C channel, one sized to fit within the other. Don't count on the dump subframe to make up for the stability and strength of a double frame. Much nicer to tailgate stone with and you are more apt not to bend the frame in the middle.

 

[Builder]

If I were to buy a "mainstream" gas powered dumptruck, it would be 8.1L powered or possibly a Ford 429 "Lima" gasser. The older IH 345's & 392's are just too old usually to find in good running condition.

The 8.1L is a tough 500 cu in. gas motor with a lot of torque down low and enough rotating mass to get the job done. Gotta watch for the weakness of the 8.1 and that's a soft knock sound. I think it's a spark knock and it upsets some pickup owners, they think the engine is defective, but it's not.

I am starting a business and I am guessing that I will be putting less than 12k miles on it per year.

Then a gas motor is on the borderline. I don't know how many miles are on it now, but 12K/yr is about max for a gasser in a truck that size to expect a 10 yr lifespan between rebuilds. Nice thing is a reman 8.1L is probably cheap. GM is basically the last company to build a truck of that size with available big block gas power.

If that truck is 26,000lbs, I'd estimate an empty weight of ~12,000lbs. With that power plant it will easily trailer up to 20,000lbs or haul 7 tons in the bed.

The area where I live is very hilly.

That would only be a problem when fully loaded. You will not enjoy the low end torque benefits of a diesel when climbing a hill from a dead stop and will consume quite a bit more fuel. However, if I were to pick a gas motor to use, it would be the 8.1L since it develops respectable torque down low.

It's no Peterbilt or IH , but it's a perfect "starter" dumptruck and hopefully it's cheap. I agree with the other guys that diesel is a better choice, but I've been in your shoes-I had to buy 2 gas dumptrucks (an IH S-1600 & IH S-1700, 345 & 392 gas respectively) before I could pay for a diesel dumptruck. My first was a '89 F-700 with a 6.6L diesel. A whopping 180HP.

Double frames are nice, but not a necessity unless you're off road and dumping heavy loads many times. A single frame dump is fine if you're reasonably careful with it. 7 ton loads are not a big problem on a strong single frame.

I can't tell if it has airbrakes. I really like airbrakes, but newer hydraulic disc brakes are way better than the old hyraulic drums I had to fix myself.

The thing I don't like is the price. That's too expensive for the times we live in right now. I would think you could find a similar gas dumptruck down close to 20K. For $27,000, I know you could get a clean airbraked diesel dumptruck.

 

[BarryinMN]

I don't know this for sure, but I think I read it on the internet so it must be true!!!

The Ryder truck conversions make poor dump trucks as the frame is thinner/weaker on those trucks.

That part I don't know for sure, but it could be. What I can imagine though, is that a dump truck body puts a whole lot of load on the frame while dumping with all the load on basically three points: The lift cylinder and the two rear pivots. If the dump body has its own frame that just bolts to the truck frame, no biggie but if the dump body is attached to the truck frame at just a few points it could be a problem. We really do need Builder to weigh in on this thread.

I've heard & seen Semi tractor chassis cut & stretched to make a dump truck or a grain truck with poor results especially if the operator is on a slope.
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These things are sold as cab & chassis 1-2-3-4 ton etc. Air brakes takeover at 30~33K GVW (don't remember exactly)

With the price differential gas/diesel & miles makes an easy justification. MPG diesel 6-8 gas 4-6.

The wild card is the hills & loads. The diesel has a narrow power band with lots of torque reserve where the gasser might need to drop a gear or 2 for RPM's.

 

[john_bud]

As long as your not doing it for hire CDL should not apply.

GVW may be under 26,000, but towing a trailer over 10,000 where the total is over 26,001 puts him in CDL land - getting paid or not. Not that it matters as he already has the CDL.


Targeting a niche with smaller equipment may be a smart thing. Just be aware that the big boys may balance out the cost of undercutting you vs the cost of sitting idle. It's often a case where LESS money is lost by working at a loss than sitting.

Good luck with the biz!

jb

 

[Diamondpilot]

Yep, that is true in my area. Single axles charge $50 a load upto 25 miles and a quad charges $75 a load upto 25 miles. The singles carry 8 tons max and the quad carries 24 tons max. Cheaper to use the larger truck.

Chris

 

[Jeff244]

Thanks for the replies,

I think I will stay away from the Penske Trucks, although I really like the way they are set up.

Builder  	
Re: Need opinions mon gas powered dump trucks
If I were to buy a "mainstream" gas powered dumptruck, it would be 8.1L powered or possibly a Ford 429 "Lima" gasser. The older IH 345's & 392's are just too old usually to find in good running condition.

The 8.1L is a tough 500 cu in. gas motor with a lot of torque down low and enough rotating mass to get the job done. Gotta watch for the weakness of the 8.1 and that's a soft knock sound. I think it's a spark knock and it upsets some pickup owners, they think the engine is defective, but it's not.

Quote:
I am starting a business and I am guessing that I will be putting less than 12k miles on it per year.
Then a gas motor is on the borderline. I don't know how many miles are on it now, but 12K/yr is about max for a gasser in a truck that size to expect a 10 yr lifespan between rebuilds. Nice thing is a reman 8.1L is probably cheap. GM is basically the last company to build a truck of that size with available big block gas power.

If that truck is 26,000lbs, I'd estimate an empty weight of ~12,000lbs. With that power plant it will easily trailer up to 20,000lbs or haul 7 tons in the bed.

Quote:
The area where I live is very hilly.
That would only be a problem when fully loaded. You will not enjoy the low end torque benefits of a diesel when climbing a hill from a dead stop and will consume quite a bit more fuel. However, if I were to pick a gas motor to use, it would be the 8.1L since it develops respectable torque down low.

It's no Peterbilt or IH , but it's a perfect "starter" dumptruck and hopefully it's cheap. I agree with the other guys that diesel is a better choice, but I've been in your shoes-I had to buy 2 gas dumptrucks (an IH S-1600 & IH S-1700, 345 & 392 gas respectively) before I could pay for a diesel dumptruck. My first was a '89 F-700 with a 6.6L diesel. A whopping 180HP.

Double frames are nice, but not a necessity unless you're off road and dumping heavy loads many times. A single frame dump is fine if you're reasonably careful with it. 7 ton loads are not a big problem on a strong single frame.

I can't tell if it has airbrakes. I really like airbrakes, but newer hydraulic disc brakes are way better than the old hyraulic drums I had to fix myself.

The thing I don't like is the price. That's too expensive for the times we live in right now. I would think you could find a similar gas dumptruck down close to 20K. For $27,000, I know you could get a clean airbraked diesel dumptruck.

Builder, the first truck I ever drove was an IH Loadstar 1600 with a 345 engine, I was 16 at the time. We had an IH Loadstar 1800 with a 392 and it would get pulled over often to be checked for overweight because it was so slow when loaded.

I have a couple months before I need the truck, so I will keep an eye out for a decent diesel truck and maybe make a lowball offer in cash, assuming I get the line of credit I am applying for.

john_bud  	
Re: Need opinions mon gas powered dump trucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBrown59 View Post
As long as your not doing it for hire CDL should not apply.

GVW may be under 26,000, but towing a trailer over 10,000 where the total is over 26,001 puts him in CDL land - getting paid or not. Not that it matters as he already has the CDL.


Targeting a niche with smaller equipment may be a smart thing. Just be aware that the big boys may balance out the cost of undercutting you vs the cost of sitting idle. It's often a case where LESS money is lost by working at a loss than sitting.

Good luck with the biz!

Diamondpilot  	
Re: Need opinions mon gas powered dump trucks
Yep, that is true in my area. Single axles charge $50 a load upto 25 miles and a quad charges $75 a load upto 25 miles. The singles carry 8 tons max and the quad carries 24 tons max. Cheaper to use the larger truck.

Chris

The market I am after is smaller jobs. As I mentioned it is very hilly here and almost everyone has gravel driveways that get washed out in the Spring and Summer storms. Many times all they need is a few tons of stone and some regrading. I will also do backhoe work, bush hogging, rototilling, post hole digging, removing fallen trees, cleaning out and digging small ponds, and similar work. I would hope that I'd have lower overhead than most people since I already own just about everything I need except the truck.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Jeff244]

Hmmm, I guess I'm gonna have to work on the copy and pasting of quotes.

 

[Builder]

I have a couple months before I need the truck, so I will keep an eye out for a decent diesel truck and maybe make a lowball offer in cash, assuming I get the line of credit I am applying for.


Thanks,
Jeff

I was in the market for a 50HP cab utility 4x4 tractor with a loader, no more than a few years old. I had a budget of $18,000 MAX. I couldn't find squat. Matter of fact, I couldn't find anything under $21,000.

I waited patiently and found a great deal on Ebay. Got a CAT Challenger MT285B- 48HP, hydro, cab with a/c, 4x4, loader & 2 remotes for $14,800!!!

There ARE some steals out there. You just have to check the places you look every night and have your money ready to roll on a moment's notice. I have done this in the past and it works.

If you're impatient, you'll almost always pay more.