Need some DEEP French Drains, how can I do this or hire someone?

[dodge man]

If you were in Illinois, I could hook you up with old aerials. They are available here from the 1940's and 1950's. You need some fairly powerfull software to work with some of them, we use Autocad Map to see them.

I know our Soil and Water Conservation Office had old aerial photos. I assume they have some kind of similar service in Texas, but it is a farm based office.

The water I saw on the streets was the street view from Google Maps. I had a feeling it was ground water coming from the ground. I don't know what the date of the photos is on the street view of google map, and who knows it might have rained 10 inches the week before. It does looks as if the area has a ground water problem in general.

It sounds like you have had a expert look at it and gave you a price. My question is does the french drain have an outlet, or does it just hold the water until it drys out?

 

[tommu56]

I know this might sound out of the question but what about having mover move the house and put new foundation and put it back?
..tom

 

[inveresk]

While I would love it if it was all sprinkler water, but no. I know exactly the alley "stains" you speak of, but the neighbors have had their sprinkler off for a couple of months.

The EAST side is UPHILL< the north is my neighbors which is downhill from me.

A very qualified french drain guy came over today and finds it hard to believe that the water that is on the "downhill" side of the home is what is heaving the home.

His plan is to french drain the house counter clockwise, and the biggest drop on my property is 5 feet from where he plans on starting the counterclockwise.

His bid is 13K and he showed me the detailed materials list. He has a whopping 3K of profit built it and he will have a crew of 3 guys and him for 2 weeks... he wants to make the drain 8 to 10 inches below beam.

HE ADMITS this WILL NOT LEVEL the home, but merely get the drainage correct.

Next, he says, the only way to actually deal with the heaving is to excavate UNDER THE FOUNDATION for about 2 months (figuring about half of home). This will be around 10K or so... be he doesn't want to do that first. He thinks correcting the water flow in the top ground water will be step 1.

Excavating will only be about a year or two after the french drains and then he thinks that will settle the HEAVING part of the home. The 3rd step is to pier the SOUTH SIDE of the home to bring the "low" side (in the -1 to negative 2 inches down) up.

The piers are not estimated, but he does not want to pier even half the house, just the one bedroom on the south side of the house.

In general, this guy does PIER and FRENCH DRAIN work for a large company that fixes multimillion dollar homes... and he's the foreman that has this side company that does work. I've seen him doing pier work in pictures on his site.

SOoooooooo... while 13K is pretty cheap (considering all the labor, materials and such) and while I might be able to find someone for a K or so less, this guy has experience.

This doesn't mean I'm pulling the trigger, but just weighing my options. I do like that he can excavate and actually bring the high side down, (which is probably the only thing that will). He does NOT believe the drains will correct the heaving.

Thoughts?

I wish anyone that can see some OLD photos to post them here so I can see them... or email them to mark@webix.com

Thank you!

If the 14' French drains didn't work for your neighbor, why do you think shallower ones willl work for you?

 

[CurlyDave]

If the 14' French drains didn't work for your neighbor, why do you think shallower ones willl work for you?

I am still wondering where these French drains will actually drain to.

Unless you have a way to drain them of water, I fail to see how they will do anything.

 

[inveresk]

I am still wondering where these French drains will actually drain to.

Unless you have a way to drain them of water, I fail to see how they will do anything.

A drain is only a drain if it has somewhere to drain to. But without backtracking on the thread I seem to recall that Mancho did say that there would be an outlet. If not, it will make a nice moat!

 

[beeforty]

A drain is only a drain if it has somewhere to drain to. But without backtracking on the thread I seem to recall that Mancho did say that there would be an outlet. If not, it will make a nice moat!

Yes you need an outlet and need to divert any and all surface water. I was fortunate to have a house site high enough to drain to a creek. I am in a high ground water area, hit h2o @ 4 ' doing a perc test after the required minimum rain. Had soils engineer bore holes and test for foundation engineer. Recomended a 4' French drain but when starting at the creek exit found water running off a sandstone layer about 10' down. Stayed right on top of that layer to catch all the water. What happens on another area and may be happening to you is that as the slope stops and levels out the water rises. My house is dry underneath(crawl space) but the other spot flows water after it starts rainy season, a 30x20 area could almost fill 4" pipe. I have a hill that goes up several hundred feet behind me and have graded to divert surface runoff. As some also said I have my trench lined with filter fabric and then back filled. Ended up going with a wider trench because the b-hoe bucket next size was deeper so digging was faster and rock is cheaper than hoe/operator. I am a little concerned about how close some of those trench pictures are to the foundations, I was told to keep the trench as far away to the side as you go done (10' deep 10' over) like out at 45degrees. Some suggested moving the house, well I have a freind who wanted to do a 2x floor, just jacked up the whole house so as to do the tractor work for new foundation. He said it was cheaper than reworking foundation and lower walls. Just my 2c's.

 

[mancho]

If the 14' French drains didn't work for your neighbor, why do you think shallower ones willl work for you?

Yes this is my delima ... I was over next door and this morning they were digging the neighbors 10 to 14 foot trench on my side where a majority of the ground water is evident and they have water of 6 inches sitting down at 10 feet .. I saw it.

Funny thing is, one french drain expert says that 36 inches from the bottom of the foundation beam is more than adequate ... even if there is a river running under the house.

Honestly this whole thing is stressful... every engineer has a **** opinion andthey are all different in terms of exact digging depth...but they all come to the same conclusion, you have water under your foundation.

To answer the drainage question...my fav french drain guy says that I have a max 5 foot drop at the lowest point in the property ...so that will be the run off spot at the endof the hill.

**** I hate this conundrum.

 

[Egon]

Honestly this whole thing is stressful./QUOTE]

Without a doubt it is creating problems for you.

Just the economics of solutions and viability/variability of the solutions would drive most people around the bend and down the river on the way to somewhere??

With all the solutions available there doesn't seem to be one that has started from some solid diagnostic procedures, i.e., getting proper information on the soil and water conditions that exist for the area, not just on your lot. It may be an idea to organize the neighbours; if possible, and obtain the services of a reputable firm that has worked soils design on some major projects and has the proper Laboratory Facilities available to them.

 

[mancho]

Honestly this whole thing is stressful./QUOTE]

Without a doubt it is creating problems for you.

Just the economics of solutions and viability/variability of the solutions would drive most people around the bend and down the river on the way to somewhere??

With all the solutions available there doesn't seem to be one that has started from some solid diagnostic procedures, i.e., getting proper information on the soil and water conditions that exist for the area, not just on your lot. It may be an idea to organize the neighbours; if possible, and obtain the services of a reputable firm that has worked soils design on some major projects and has the proper Laboratory Facilities available to them.

Actually there has been soil tests but not for our home yet. I will be obtaining a neighbors soil test that from what they said, is right next to our house ..so ill post that.

The soil is mostly clay, red thick clay that is obnoxiously thick.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

 

[MicroPilot]

I am still wondering where these French drains will actually drain to.

Unless you have a way to drain them of water, I fail to see how they will do anything.

I apologize if this has been answered, as I did not read every post.

From the drawing you posted and looking on Google Maps, it looks like your lot is relatively flat, as is the whole development. Plus you property is surrounded on 3 sides by paved right of way. How will the French drains drain? Where will the water go? If there is no where for them to drain too, they become water sinks.

It seems the first engineer report that you submitted realized the problem of where to redirect the water, and their suggestion was to instead put deep pilings in to stabilize the house, instead of trying to control the water.