Need some help troubleshooting hydraulics

[Shredder]

Thanks Darryl, you've been a lot of help. I'll get on this in the morning. But don't wander off too far, I'm sure I'll be back

And I apologize for missing your post in my first thread. I quit watching it when I thought it had been abandoned

Norm

 

[Shredder]

Well, 1 step forward and 1 step back. I'm not sure I've located the proper plug/port to screw the pressure gauge into. The IT shop manual says it's on the right side. There are 2 plugs on the right side; 1 on the bottom center and the other on the right (port) side of the Drop Speed Control Valve, on the front of the hitch cover. Neither registered any pressure when the engine was running (although I know that oil is flowing through the system when the engine is running).

The only pressure line coming from the pump comes in on the other side, the left side, above the relief valve. And there is one plug/port on that side, just below the relief valve. I'll have to get some nipples and couplings if I'm to hook the gauge to that port.

Darryl, on anyone familiar with this tractor, do you know which plug/port is the correct choice for testing the pressure? I hate to think I've already tested the correct port

 

[Kernopelli]

Sorry to say I haven't done it on my tractor and after going out and looking at mine, I just can't tell without taking everything off to see better. My manual says to remove the "pipe plug" in the hydraulic housing cylinder cover to install the gauge. That might be the plug you described next to the speed control. The cylinder is centered in the hydraulic housing and faces forward so it should be under the seat, like the speed control. It says to lower the hitch (have lever in down position), unhook the sensing rod, remove pipe plug from hydraulic housing cylinder cover and install pressure gage in test port. Operate engine at high idle speed, hold hitch control lever in raise position and observe pressure reading when relief valve opens.

Did you mover the 3ph control lever to "raise position" when you checked it? I am certain this is critical because flow is likely diverted from the cylinder in the down position.

Darryl

 

[Shredder]

Your manual seems to be worded better than mine.

I tried the gauge in the pipe port next to the drop speed control valve, just under the front of the seat. I had the sensing rod disconnected and I had the position lever in the "raise" position at RPMs from 900-2,400. The gauge didn't move

So I removed the relief valve for inspection. I did find a couple of rusty looking bits deep in the housing. They looked large enough to be a problem. However, I saw no rust on the inside of the housing. I cleaned the housing, reassembled the innards, replaced the whole apparatus, and fired the engine up. No luck; still no 3ph movement.

The counter guy at our NAPA said he suspected the pump to be the problem. However, I'm still unsure about the pressure.

 

[bones1]

Can you connect the pressure gauge directly to the pump or a hose coming from the pump?.How's your hydraulic filter?.

 

[Shredder]

Hi bones 1,

No, I cannot connect the gauge to the pump or in-line between the pump and downstream valves The pressure line coming from the pump is pre-bent steel and has special built-in fittings on each end. This little compact tractor doesn't have many customization possibilities. However when I loosen the end at the reservoir when the tractor is running, oil comes squirting out. So there is 'some' pressure in the pressure line.

I removed the filter because it is deteriorating and needs replacement, and to remove the possibility of that being a problem. Right now I'm running with no filter I hope to remedy that this week.

 

[Kernopelli]

Well, your knocking the list down, and that's good. It's not the relief valve or the control linkage. That pretty much leaves the pump or control valve. The pump may be moving fluid but what seems like a lot of psi can be really deceiving. To rule out the pump its going to HAVE TO BE tested with an accurate gauge and I'm not sure just how to do that. I know what you mean by one hydraulic line, etc. The only thing I could recommend to do without hooking the gauge to the end hydraulic line where it enters the hydro housing which would dead head the pump and probably hard to do because of the type of fitting on the end is to cut the hard line and put a "T" in it for the gauge....that's easy for me to say though because I've already had to cut mine and plumb it for my front end loader. Discount hydraulics has 1/2" compression fittings for the hard line, if you want to go that route and you could just cap off the "t" when the gauge isn't connected (or even just leave the gauge but it might be in harms way because of the line routing.) Flareless Compression Hydraulic Tube Fittings (My line was actually 12mm but I used the 1/2" and cranked it down HARD and it has worked fine. If yours are 12mm, "EFC"- a member on this forum carries 12 mm fittings and can be reached at 509-374-3398 ext 2 for service).

Something else to think about is maybe you aren't getting a pressure reading because the problem IS the control valve. It's a 50/50 proposition at this point which way you want to go. Maybe it is easier/makes more sense to check the control valve next and if you don't find anything there go back to testing the pump. Just my 2 cents.

BTW- discount hydraulics was pretty fast and their salesmen were very knowledgeable, they helped me figure out what I needed and got it to me within 3-4 days and was cheap to boot if it comes down to having to cut the line.

Darryl

 

[Shredder]

I'm going to query the Case/IH dealer Monday about where to attach the gauge. I think that is easier than removing more bolts or cutting the hard line Then I'll know for sure about the pump. Accessing the control valve requires unhooking the shredder, and removing the hitch cover with the lift arms; not looking forward to that. And I'm still concerned about where that relief valve trash came from.

I'm surprised you had to tap into the steel pressure line to run an aux. On the parts website you posted a link to they list an adapter that attaches to the left side of the hydro reservoir for running aux attachments.

On the positive side, I'm getting to know this machine better every day

.....it's raining and the grass is getting deeper every day

 

[Kernopelli]

Well actually, I didn't even know about the CIH website until after doing the end loader. It probably wouldn't have made a difference to have known the AUX was available at that time though, plumbing into the pressure side of the line is a common way to run to the FEL control valve and without a doubt much cheaper (which always appeals to my frugal side). I think going to the dealer is a good idea though, let us know what they say.
I scrapped my local dealer long ago for my tractor issues. I have been several times and as soon as I tell them it is a Mitsubishi/grey model 254 they act like there is nothing they can do and I don't know what I'm talking about. They apparently want everyone to think IH made these tractors and there are no similarities....it really burns my biscuits, if you know what I mean!
Darryl

 

[JerryG]

Norm,
Check the quick connectors if your tractor has any. They are without a doubt the number one hydraulic problem on compact tractors. They become disconnected which stops the flow. They may look like they are connected and not be, so check each of them. They may seem like they are seated when pulled on and they may look like they are seated but they may not be. I have seen tractors that had to have all of them disconnected and reconnected just to find the one with the problem.