Need some home heating feedback: Wood boiler or fireplace insert?

[AnotherBueller]

We run through about $1800 worth of propane a year in our 5 year old home: 2200 sq ft ranch, 75% finished basement, 2 propane furnaces, on demand propane hot water heater, propane stove/oven, propane starter fireplace. We also use the fireplace a fair amount. We keep the thermostat at 68 during colder months, 65 when no one is in the house (mostly business hours when we are at our home office...another house on the property).

The home office is an older (32 years) house, 1400 square feet, used as our home office and a guest space; has a wood burning stove that we use November - February, with a heat pump/propane furnace as a backup. That house uses about $600/year in propane ($ use based on roughly $2.75 - $3/gallon propane in recent years). Propane water heater (usually left on pilot only), propane stove/oven (rarely used).

Even though our wood use is modest, perhaps 1 to 1.5 cords per year, we are enjoying processing firewood. Last year, I bought a traditional firebox-styled smoker grill, as well as a Kamado style grill, and we're cooking a lot with our own firewood, and making lump charcoal for use in both grills. We've become firewood hobbyists, on a small scale. We have 62 acres, mostly wooded, mixed hardwood and pine, and a lot of trees to work with.

I'm thinking about whether or not a fireplace insert makes sense, or is even possible, in the new house. The fireplace is a prefab metal insert, so I don't even know what's possible. It's a larger fireplace, and I've read mixed comments about whether or not it can be adapted to an insert.

A smaller, outdoor wood boiler is also a possibility. It would be a big project, running lines to both houses (they are about 200 feet apart), but I have a backhoe on my tractor and could do most of the install.

I know either solution has a relatively short payback in propane savings, and we could enjoy warmer temps in both houses.

Looking for feedback on any aspect of this.

I have a 44year old Vermont Castings wood stove. They also make inserts.

Vermont Castings Wood Fireplace Inserts | Forge & Flame

Transform your fireplace with Vermont Casting's wood fireplace inserts. Enjoy reliable warmth, energy efficiency, and the natural beauty of a wood burning fire.

forgenflame.com

Mine is the Resolute model, pre-cat. output ~6,000 BTU (?) with a dual wall stainless flue, and it's almost too much. It uses a max of 16" wood. My house is ~2,00 SqFt on two stories with the stove right next to the stairs going up. It has a thermostatic intake air control. With outside temps >30F, a load lasts all day.
Requires annual replacement of gaskets (if I remember to do so)
I can fully recommend it.
Bob

 

[sd455dan]

I don't there is any fire place insert that could compete with a wood stove for heat output.

My dad put a Blaze King Catalytic wood burning insert in place of their Fireplace and heated most of a 4000" sq. foot multi level house with it. He got tired of feeding it at 80 and converted the insert to gas.

The new Princess 29 insert:
~ 36000 BTU's for 9 hours on high.
or 11500 BTU's for up to 27 hours

I am biased to Blaze King Catalytic stoves though, 25 years + heating with them.
They are NOT an inexpensive stove or insert to buy though.

They are also an epa approved stove with only 1.26 grams per hour emissions rating

 

[shooterdon]

We heat primarily with wood in the winter. We've been doing it for over 10 years. I love it.

However, with that said, it only pays off if you don't put a value on your time. It is a lot of work! It brings a lot of dirt and dust into the house, you have to haul ashes out (ours is only about every 3-4 weeks, but it still has to be done), and processing firewood takes time. I spend one day dropping trees, one day hauling them to the landing, 5 days sawing them into 16-18" pieces and hauling them home on the trailer, and 5 days splitting to get the 6 cords we use in the coldest winters. So at least 12 days a year doing firewood.

12days X 8hours = 96 hours.
96 hours X $20 an hour (what I value my time at) = $1920

I saved nothing.

Now add in the cost of saw, gas, tractor, trailer, splitter, stove or boiler, installation on top of the nothing you saved...

With that said, I enjoy the tasks involved in getting firewood, I'm outdoors, getting good exercise and cleaning up a lot of deadfall and/or nuisance trees. So it has great mental and physical benefits. Just don't believe it'll save you a lot of money IF you value your time. If you have plenty of time on your hands it's well worth it.

As for outdoor wood boilers.... be cautious of where you place it and the predominant winds. Can't count the number of times we've seen the smoke from a dampered-down outdoor boiler blowing right at a house, or a neighbor's house, or just across a road. Also, think about how many times you'll have to go outside to load it. Even on the nastiest of days, you'll still have to tend to it.

I did that for years. I invested $13k in a firewood processor and buy logs. I go through 5 cords year for heating. That costs $700 for logs. I can process 5 cords in 15 hours. Figure $100 for fuel/oil/etc. Decent savings over propane.

I sell firewood and earn over $25/hr. in my spare time. So I save some money and make some money. I plan to spend 250 hours a year processing wood. That will let me pay off the processor in two years.

I do not need to fell trees, buck logs, lift rounds, lift splits or stack them. The split firewood goes directly into bulk bags from the processor. I am retired so it is a simple and easy side business the way I am doing it.

 

[dadohead]

We built in 2016 and designed for an outdoor woodburner. I'm retired and still fit so the decision was pretty easy. We have woods, trees go down anyway that need to be removed. I used to give them to friends and coordinated that work; now we just process them ourselves.

The insurance company was particularly interested in the details of our system. Once they saw pictures, things relaxed. Later, our agent mentioned indoor burning with a central mounted or basement stove would have raised issues (like higher rates or even cancel). I'm in the country; my neighbors have all retrofitted inside wood stoves years ago. Guessing that never got mentioned to their agents.

I have a Heatmaster dealer in the area; he gave me names of local customers I could talk to before building. What I learned was that the installation is everything! MANY systems I saw were installed by techs that clearly had no clue; each customer raved about the unit but had a laundry list of issues in the house (pm me if you ever want to know what NOT to do). My contractor found a specialist that had done many outdoor burner installs. After 8 years of use... the kid really did know his stuff. Find the right guy!

Our wood burner heats the basement floor, forced air, hot water, and the garage floor of our 2100 sq ft home. There are different quality levels of the lines that run from the burner. The lines recommended to us were $1k just for a 100' run! That made the decision NOT to feed our shed (500' away) pretty easy. A friend added radiant heat coils under the 1st floor of his new home just the year before our build. That alone added $20k to his costs. No need. The basement heated to 68 makes the 1st floor warm and the space comfy... the forced air takes it from there.

The first few years.... we moved wood to the burner and restacked. That got old fast. About year 3, I built 'pods' that allowed me to bring wood from storage to the burner using the tractor.

Built over pallet bases, each pod holds 1/4 cord and is sized so my compact tractor can lift. We use 8 cords in the coldest years. 32 pods were built. They have been a godsend. Each Spring when we process wood, 2 pods are set at a time at the splitter and get loaded ONCE. We also know exactly how much we need to finish. Adding runners to the bottom and laying treated 2x4's at the storage area gets the pallets off the ground and prolongs their life. The pods still look like new after 6 years and have had few repairs.

I could go on and on... hopefully someone will find these ramblings useful! Good luck!

 

[Oaktree]

Our wood burner heats the basement floor, forced air, hot water, and the garage floor of our 2100 sq ft home. There are different quality levels of the lines that run from the burner. The lines recommended to us were $1k just for a 100' run! That made the decision NOT to feed our shed (500' away) pretty easy. A friend added radiant heat coils under the 1st floor of his new home just the year before our build. That alone added $20k to his costs. No need. The basement heated to 68 makes the 1st floor warm and the space comfy... the forced air takes it from there.

The first few years.... we moved wood to the burner and restacked. That got old fast. About year 3, I built 'pods' that allowed me to bring wood from storage to the burner using the tractor.


Built over pallet bases, each pod holds 1/4 cord and is sized so my compact tractor can lift. We use 8 cords in the coldest years. 32 pods were built. They have been a godsend. Each Spring when we process wood, 2 pods are set at a time at the splitter and get loaded ONCE. We also know exactly how much we need to finish. Adding runners to the bottom and laying treated 2x4's at the storage area gets the pallets off the ground and prolongs their life. The pods still look like new after 6 years and have had few repairs.

I'm a little confused, do you have some sort of radiant heat or do you just rely on the heat from the basement rising to the living area? I suppose that could work if your basement is also living space, seems like it'd be wasted heat if it's just a basement.

Your "pod" method of transporting/storing firewood is interesting, but looks like a lot of work. Is it safe to assume that it's easy to transfer these pods from where you store them to somewhere easily accessible to the house? For me there'd be no easy way to do that in winter. I find it easier to just put this year's worth of wood in a shed near the house and leave the rest tarped out of the way at the edge of a field. It's maybe 8 pickup loads to fill the shed.

 

[ning]

I have a "reasonably efficient" (if I recall, about 90%?) propane furnace here - actually two, one for the downstairs and one for the upstairs; the downstairs doesn't get much human use any more so I keep that furnace set to 58 just in case. We also have a "built-in fireplace" - basically a zero-clearance fireplace insert that's built right into the wall. External combustion air and a blower system. The last few years I've kept that running 90% of the time in the winter and the upstairs furnace doesn't get used at all; my propane use is what I consider negligible (and includes the water heater) - about 3-400g/year. I'm burning about 2 cords (you know, the full 128cuft cords) a year and it appears I've decreased propane use by about 500g/year; actually didn't refill the tanks last year because so much was left. I've contemplated adding another wood stove downstairs, more for mood/aesthetic than anything substantial though it would provide a bit more independence from propane prices.

Similar to others here I enjoy cutting wood; I'm using ibc tote cages for a "stack once right where you split it", more or less, as we have a built-in wood box accessible from both the outside of the house and inside right next to the fireplace, so I get a wheelbarrow and bring it over and stack that in the wood box. I have a decent "income" of oak from by own land clearing & maintenance as well as stuff here and nearby that the electric utility cuts down to secure their overhead power lines. 10-20 years ago we were buying wood pre-split; that was probably more expensive than the propane at the time, but delivered seasoned split wood prices here have been flat in the last 20 years -- actually cheaper now than then considering inflation.

A future house of mine will likely feature a outside wood boiler unit as part of a resilient heating system. I don't know that I'd want to rely on it year in, year out, but how much you value your time may change depending on if you're employed...

 

[dadohead]

I'm a little confused, do you have some sort of radiant heat or do you just rely on the heat from the basement rising to the living area?

Let me elaborate. First, there is no 'wasted heat' with an outdoor woodburner. It makes so much energy that you point it where you want and use what you can. My point was this: putting coils in concrete is cheap compared to securing under/into the first floor. We have hardwood floors on the main floor as well so heating those areas is particularly sketchy. Yes, our basement is finished. Heated concrete does limit flooring choices. We have commercial vinyl/concrete in my wood shop. Keeping the basement warm very much helps on the main floor. It is heated with forced air (only the furnace fan runs though; a liquid-to-air heat exchanger in the plenum is hot 24/7 from the wood burner.) LP burners in the furnace kick on as backup.

Your "pod" method of transporting/storing firewood is interesting, but looks like a lot of work. Is it safe to assume that it's easy to transfer these pods from where you store them to somewhere easily accessible to the house?

The initial work of building the pods was noteworthy. I built 3/week; 32 in all at a cost of $500. The ability to move them to wherever the splitter is to process is huge. Sometimes that's in the woods if the tree is too big for me to skid. No biggy. We usually process in our front pasture where the log pile is. We also try and have all the pods filled before Easter to burn the following year. Seasoned wood keeps the burner running clean without issue. The pic above shows the pods as staged from the splitter but before being set for storage. That is about 100 yards from the burner. Our system uses two pods/week.

Yes, once a week I fire up the tractor, snag the rear forks, and swap out 2 pods. Compared to handling the wood like we used to.... IT IS EASY! ;<)