Need Surveying Advice

[TNhobbyfarmer]

I am thinking about having the property line on part of my farm surveyed. I don't know the last time it was surveyed, many decades I'm sure. The property line will go through mostly a wooded area. The approximate area is 150 acres. I have never had any surveying done so I'm not quite sure what to expect from a cost standpoint. Does anyone have any wild guesses?

Assuming I have more that one bid to do the job, what is the best way to determine the competence or lack thereof of prospective survey companies? I am always cautious when paying money for something I don't know much about. Please comment with suggestions, experience, wild guesses as to what it will cost, etc. etc.

 

[tallyho8]

You might want to read this thread:
https://beta.tractorbynet.net/forums/index.php?threads/93165/

 

[JRobyn]

Good luck! We've had fits trying to get any surveying done around Gainesboro! One of the main local firms (Thaxton) left Cookeville and is now in McMinnville, but they are still decent, just hard to get to respond as they are way too busy. If you are just interested in figuring out how your lines lay, and you don't need super-precision, you might try entering all of your "calls" into some surverying software (I used "Plat-Pronto"; about $100), then I printed out the resulting boundary on mylar and scaled an aerial photo and topo map to the same scale so that I had an overlay of the boundaries on both the photo and topo. I figure it's good to within a foot or less.

 

[RobJ]

Shop around, ask locals. Referals..etc.

I paid about $600 for my 1.9-acres. The dude ripped me off, said it wass 300-400. Not much hacking to do either. I found another guy to cut out 35 acres of my BIL's place. Down a branch creek for a 1/4 mile, hacking through the woods for a couple hundred yards...open field on the rest. Charges about $1000 if I recall. I pleasure to do business with to.

Good Luck!

 

[shaley]

When you talk to the companies ask whether they have GPS or optical equipment. Anybody who has GPS will probably still have their older optical total stations but not vise versa. GPS will be cheaper method where a prop line requires a lot of brush cutting in order to sight down it, but the cost per hour is higher. Are the lines clear, or if you want to clear them the the guy that up front. As far as the quality goes, it's hard to mess up a closed boundry where the borders are clear. The mathmatics will check themselves.

 

[zeuspaul]

If the property was surveyed before there is a good chance you can find the old markers. Why do you need a new survey??

Zeuspaul

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

If the property was surveyed before there is a good chance you can find the old markers. Why do you need a new survey??

Zeuspaul

The farm is the old family homeplace and probably hasn't been surveyed in decades. The deed starts out as follows; "Beginning at a wild cherry, the southeast corner of Milam Woods tract of land, and a corner to the Rough and Ready Iron Works Company land etc. etc." You get the picture.

The Rough and Ready Irons Works Company hasn't owned land in the area since the 1930's. I don't have a clue what is meant by Milam Woods. This land has been in my family since 1920. The property line runs through the woods and I would just like to have it marked. I suppose land should be surveyed every now and then even if it doesn't change hands. The old timers who could walk the lines are gone. I think it would just be nice to know.

 

[HomeBrew2]

... The deed starts out as follows; "Beginning at a wild cherry, the southeast corner of Milam Woods tract of land, and a corner to the Rough and Ready Iron Works Company land etc. etc." ...

WOW! A metes and BOUNDS description that starts out with two (apparently tracable) qualifiers !?!? You're in a lot better shape than a lot of folks

Can you post the entire description, as it is written, exactly?

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

WOW! A metes and BOUNDS description that starts out with two (apparently tracable) qualifiers !?!? You're in a lot better shape than a lot of folks

Can you post the entire description, as it is written, exactly?

OK, you asked for it.

Tract 1: Beginning at a wild cherry, the southeast corner of Milam Woods tract of land, and a corner to the Rough and Ready Iron Works company land, and running thence north 1/2 degree east, 155 1/2 poles to a stake, formerly a dogwood; thence south 89 1/2 degrees east, 75 poles to a stake in an ore bank; thence north 1 degree east, 32 poles to a stake in a coaling; thence north 89 1/2 degrees west, 203 poles; thence south 182 poles; thence south 88 degrees east, 125 poles to the beginning, containing 153 acres, more or less.

Tract 2: Begining at a Beech at John Stalls' southeast corner, thence south 89 degrees east, 138 1/2 poles to a red bud; thence north 187 poles to a small hickory; thence north 86 1/2 degrees west, 57 1/2 poles to a stake in Tucker's line; thence south 9 poles to a small red oak, M.W. Tucker's southeast corner; thence south 60 1/2 degrees west, 94 poles to a hickory; thence south 131 poles to the beginning, containing 147 acres more or less.

A county road runs through the land, thus the two tracts. Would a surveyor have any chance of getting an accurate line? I have my doubts

 

[Su7]

Take your lot and block info down to the town municipal building and then lookup the surrounding plats of land common to yours and record their lot and block numbers. Then go to the town deed book and lookup all adjoining lot descriptions, which may have better or worse lot descriptions, and possibly point you in the right direction to find that old cherry or birch tree.

 

[California]

I agree, pull your neighbors deeds and hope you find some recent references to locatable monuments. For example if that iron works parcel is a neat rectangle with a couple of corners known, that will help locate their corner that is common to you.

Also the county may let you see their survey file for the road.

I took similar information and located some nearby known points onto Google Earth, then added the distance/direction for my lines. My back corners hit where Grandpa's old stories predicted. By chance the neighbor had those corners surveyed and monumented a short time after. My estimated side lines were found to go down the correct corridors between orchard rows, and the survey revealed I owned about 4 ft of width more on each side compared to my Google Earth estimate. I missed my back line, across the ravine, by 10 to 20 ft but since that is an impassible steep bank, my estimate had been sufficient for any practical purpose.

Attached: I went over with a ladder and added a 'witness monument' to the one corner I can see from my side of the ravine. It's a yellow newspaper delivery tube nailed vertical to a tree, barely visible at the center of these photos.

 

[HomeBrew2]

OK, you asked for it. ...

Could be a LOT worse. Both parcels close mathmetically within 40' (precision ~ 1/300), which ain't good in today's terms but probably on par for the era and working conditions when written. Calls to adjoiners usually gives them priority, so as suggested, getting all surrounding deeds and subdivision maps, if any, would help shed more light ...

 

[shaley]

Does it look like this? This may help you find your corners. How do these tracts piece together? I can add the ajoining info as well.
The first tract has a bad area calc with a 40' closure error. Really not bad for the distance involved. The area, even with the LEOC corrected is off by 8 or so AC. If you have some questions I try and answer them.
On a side note I've got to run down to NC to pick up some tractor tires and rims so I won't be back till Sat.

 

[shaley]

Homebrew is spot on with the error. In VA for rural land you are allowed 1' in every 20,000'. You have 1 in 300. It can be adjusted to remove the error but we need to know more about where the probable error is.

 

[zeuspaul]

Nice work shaley. TN, where are the tracts in relation to the road?

If you find the original monument it will most likely hold over the distance calls in your description. If the call is 55 1/2 poles TO a tree or stake that usually means the tree or stake is the corner...think of the distance call as a finder.

You may not find the original stakes but you should look. You may find the original trees. If you know about where one of the corners is start from there. Use the distances and directions on shaley's map to look for the other corners.

Zeuspaul

 

[HomeBrew2]

Thanks for pointing out the acreages shaley, I forgot to note that. Wasn't surprised at tract 1 being off but WAS surprised that tract 2 was correct

 

[schmism]

the survey of my 4.7 acers reviled that my driveway was not on any deeded land. It also set the corners.

it cost another $500 or so to get the driveway area split between my neighbor and myself and that recorded.

For $2K i got a new plat registered with the county. for another $800 i had them topo about 2 acers around the house barn.

my wife works for the survey company.

A survey crew ill bill out at about $100 per hr. It took them about 2 days to survey the property correctly.

 

[zeuspaul]

I don't think there is a *bust* (mistake) in any one measurement. It is more likely random measurement errors. The calls are to the nearest half degree and the nearest half pole. 1/4 degree error in 10000 ft represents about 40 ft in distance. Factor in 1/4 pole error (4 ft) and the the closures are representative of the accuracies of the time.

It looks like they did not balance their traverses at the time which was probably standard procedure. So it would make sense to uses the old *raw* measurements and balance them today. However one would have to also look for the original trees and stakes (monuments) in the description and also look at the senior properties.

Zeuspaul

 

[HomeBrew2]

... original trees and stakes (monuments) ... Zeuspaul

With the magnitude of error in mind, I'd be happy to find anything that resembled an original monument within a ~20' circle of any calc'd position

 

[rox]

We only had a 3/4 acre lot surveyed but i remember the surveyor tellign us it would cost less nt he winter time when allt he leaves were down than in the summer, the lot was heavily wooded.