need to build a dozer style blade for my skid steer

[Rio_Grande]

I have a CTL 70 GHEL that I want to put a dozer type blade on. I have seen several of these for sale online for 3000 plus with the 6 way option. I am however thinking I would just build it as a straight bucket and wait till i can find a used Bob Tach rotator.

I think from the blades I have seen it needs to be really heavy. I just need some ideas on how heavy i need to make it?

The skid steer is 80 hp and weighs about 10500 lbs. I would think it should be one heck of a dozer for small trails in the woods. I just hate to spend 3000.00 for a attachment I will use for a few weeks and then neer or rarely touch again.

 

[Ken45101]

I would love a ss dozer blade but most people say they are not very effective. Notice that all the online video demos are pushing loose ground. Never seen one pushing virgin, packed dirt.

I think the angle is probably the most important to push the dirt to the side. That won't happen with a Bob Tach rotor. BTW, those aren't cheap either!

Myself, I need something to push loose dirt over the edge of a trail after I dig it out. I don't like getting out on the edge of the soft dirt :laughing:

Here is what I am doing:

I have an old 3pt scraper blade that has been sitting in the weeds (too light duty for my tractor). It is adjustable for angle and tilt and the blade will also slide side to side. I'm going to mount it on a blank skid steer QA plate. Maybe brace it some rather than relying on the pinned center rotator mount to set the angle.

Ken

 

[Rio_Grande]

I am concerned about the 3000.00 blade too. I also noticed the same thing you did ken that they never show it really working. That is why I was contemplating building a very heavy dozer style blade that the skid steer can push along in front of it to push dirt. The ability to tilt and swing would be great but I want to find out first if the combination of the dozer type blade and the tracked skid steer will cut the roads i need to cut.

 

[swick1]

All the guys who own them say they are for loose dirt only. Packed Sand is ok. Packed clay is not. Skid steers don't have the wheelbase of a dozer and won't cut flat very well. Even big dozers side cast to build a road. I say you should wait til you have the parts to do it right rather than twice.

 

[jmc]

Even big dozers side cast to build a road.

Could you explain that?

Thanks. John

 

[swick1]

Here's a picture...


If he's cutting trails I would hope that some of them are on side hills. The angle feature makes it easy.

 

[bcp]

Some interesting reading here:

CHAPTER 6 ROAD CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES

Bruce

 

[jmc]

Ah! Cut and fill is what our locals call it. bcp, that IS a good reference. Thanks, all.

John

 

[Ken45101]

Here's a picture...


If he's cutting trails I would hope that some of them are on side hills. The angle feature makes it easy.

"Easy" depends on how steep. This is one of the trails I've done. Personally I wouldn't want to try this with a skid steer/CTL with or without a tilt attachment.

Ken

 

[Rio_Grande]

The illistration is exactly what I am doing! Ken there are portions of my place that look alot like that!!
Today I was walking on the back part of my place and came across a rock wall I had seen before and never looked at closely. As I got to looking I realized that the wall was really a retaing wal built to hold the side of a really old road. I followed it all the way into the bottom until finally I realized the road in the back is going to be much easier than I orignally thought. There is still the problems in the front of the property but I cut alot better going down hill than I do going up!

Thanks for the link to the information!

 

[smiley]

Some interesting reading here:

CHAPTER 6 ROAD CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES

Bruce

There are some things shown in those illustrations that we normally wouldn't do on much of a slope. That is casting material to be used as fill onto sloping subgrades. On steep slopes, that fill during rainy season and heavy rains, is liable to loosen and slide right on down the hill. For just a trail it might be ok but anyone building a permanent road should consider bench cuts similar to what they're illustrating as the "full bench and end haul". Instead of hauling suitable fill away as shown though, it can be done as "benches" (steps) with vertical sides. Start at the outside edge of the road about 3 ft below your finished grade and sidecast the material over the side, then step up the 3 ft and sidecast the material into the bench you cut below, compacting it in lifts as you bring it up to road level. This way the fill is sitting on a near level grade instead of a slope and if you're building a super highway, as many benches can be cut as necessary to get any width needed. We sometimes use this method also just to stabilize long steep roadside embankments.
A driveway or logging road could probably be done with just one blade width bench cut.

Wow! That got real long and complicated trying to explain without drawings, something that's in my head from doing it many times so I poked around and found this.
Page 17 of this book shows a sidehill bench cut.
http://www.nra.co.za/content/Blogin/11.pdf
There's also several sites specifically for trail building
A dozer or excavator would be much safer than running a skid steer on slopes like that. If you want a dozer blade for it though, I've seen small junk dozers on craigslist for 12-1400 $ that would give all the parts you need and junk the remains.
I have a 9 ft heavy duty angling snowblade that I use for dirt on my 100 hp 4wd Massey 399, but as others have said it not great at cutting but works good for spreading fill and pushing over waste areas.

 

[PAfarmer]

Some interesting reading here:

CHAPTER 6 ROAD CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES

Bruce

Nice post Bruce. An educated look into road building/construction using various heavy equipment and multiple technique. Well done. "I have built road for many years in the hills of Northeaster PA. Steep roacky, clay, hardpan stufff and basically follow these techniques illustrated in your attachment. I find that the wider, the better in terms of long term use and erosion control. I build roads now using an excavator and a large tracked skidsteer.

 

[swick1]

How do you guys usually cut the bench? It seems like you would need an excavator digging so you wouldn't push the whole hill over at once and you could compact in lifts. I just did a job like this with my backhoe on a steep slope and my butt was puckered the whole time.

 

[Ken45101]

How do you guys usually cut the bench? It seems like you would need an excavator digging so you wouldn't push the whole hill over at once and you could compact in lifts. I just did a job like this with my backhoe on a steep slope and my butt was puckered the whole time.

ROFL. BTDT. I have done a few trails with a small backhoe (Kubota B21). A little nervous especially when moving it on a steep downhill! Then I got a Kubota KX-121-3 mini ex, what a difference! (BTW, the angle blade on the -3 is wonderful for pushing the loose dirt off to the side.)

Before that, I had a contractor with a bulldozer do trails across some steep hillsides. But I've done some with the mini ex (photo above) that I would not have asked a contractor to do. I do remember him slowly sliding sideways on one of the hills he was working on. He didn't try to maneuver until he had a big tree along side him:thumbsup: (I didn't ask him about the adrenaline factor.)

I'm guessing that if you start on a fairly level area with a skid steer and cut a little and pile it down hill to keep a level working platform you might be able to do it with a ss but I'm not ready to commit to that technique, especially with the mini ex available. OTOH, I just did some major renovation and widening with the ss on one of the trails originally done by the dozer. It went very well. My technique was to just the dig the existing trail deeper and push the spoils off to the downhill side. That seems to work pretty well, and better than trying to cut into the uphill side.

Ken

 

[Rio_Grande]

Today was a great test. I started at the bottom of one of my hills working my way up rough cutting for about 300 yards. The hillside wasnt near as bad as what I am preparing for but if I fell off my shelf the skid steer would roll to the bottom without a doubt. I started in a creek bottom where I was sitting fairly flat and got started into the bank. I was actually digging out over my head to begin with but quickly got it down and got up on the hill. I was lucky on this one because I was able to use the conture of the hill. The bank against the hill is 5 feet tall in places. I had to fight the trees out on the way up but luckly I only took out 2 sizeable hardwoods for the entire length. Most of the rest were cedar and rolled right out. On the trip down I cut the grade level with the stab and back up method Turned out really good, I am not convinced the steeper slope will go so well b ut I am on top and can work my way down. The addition of a tooth bar made all the diffrence in the world!!

 

[Ken45101]

Good job!

Yes, a world of difference with a tooth bar.

Whenever possible, start uphill and work your way down, the ss is much more effective with gravity helping it rather than fighting it. I've seen bulldozer operators back up a hillside so that they could work coming down.

Ken

 

[smiley]

How do you guys usually cut the bench? It seems like you would need an excavator digging so you wouldn't push the whole hill over at once and you could compact in lifts. I just did a job like this with my backhoe on a steep slope and my butt was puckered the whole time.

I can see already where I'll have to get long winded again but, any way you do it, it should be stripped of topsoil and pucker factor is a big part of that Job!

I would guess that any trail or driveway would require no more than 2 bench cuts. The second one would be your finished subgrade and should provide enough fill bring the lower one up to that grade, as you can always cut further into the backslope for more fill if necessary.
Something you absolutely must consider is drainage as a torrential downpour can take out hours of work in minutes. Been there done that more than once. Worst one lost a slope 10-12 ft deep 40-50 ft long

Basically with excavator, dig out up hill side and place on slope ahead of you to make a path ahead of your downhill track to level yourself and keep on digging. When on next bench up, spread on lower bench to bring up in layers for compacting.

With dozer, hook out an area with blade corner (or up and down the slope if not too steep) to level a starting pad then just keep working that grade through the hillside, hook it out and push it over. Tilt and angle blades help greatly. Gravity helps going downhill but I preferred to work uphill when possible where really steep, it's harder pushing but you're less likely to get in trouble. You can always back downhill but not always uphill. When we were filling the lower bench from the next step up, we usually worked 2 dozers. Big top one pushing over and smaller lower spreading the material for compaction. Many times we had to add material especially when doing embankments to flatten slopes.
Grade tolerances are quite lax when benching as the idea is to get a basically level subgrade for the fill to sit on to prevent slides.
Hope this helps

And Rio,
300 yards seems like great production for a skid steer but don't get over that edge when it gets steep. An excavator can get out of trouble by pushing itself out and dozers can generally do more than you've got pucker for, but skidsteers can hit a soft spot or something and get away in a hurry as I'm sure you're aware.

 

[Rio_Grande]

I know what you are saying is true Smiley. This streach was a cake walk compared to what is ahead. I am hoping that I can get a line picked pout on the other hill. I had a dozer operator come in and he wasnt concerned about it. Unfortunately I am not a doser operator.

Thanks for the information and help with this.

 

[swick1]

Lots of great info in this thread. The excavator procedure is just what I did with my backhoe!

 

[smiley]

Lots of great info in this thread. The excavator procedure is just what I did with my backhoe!

I'm retired now and just have an old 580 Case hoe for work around the place but excavators were my favorite machine with graders second.

Here's a clip of a 375 Cat with 9 yd bucket like we had at one outfit.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPMiOXqH4Kk]Cat 375 with 9 yard bucket another day moving dirt - YouTube[/ame]
Until you actually run one and curl that bucket into the bank, you can't even begin to fathom the power in your hands. At apprx 15 tons per bucket we loaded large off road rear dumpers to overflowing with 3 buckets.

And a 390 ---- [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB2O7Opjb3M&feature=related]CAT 390DLME VCT and CAT 773 on A89 - YouTube[/ame]