Need to Make some money with my Tractor.

[AlanB]

That's great that you can do that, but remember that our respective businesses are very different. I can understand why people would pay you to do their landscape design whether or not they had you do the actual work. On the other hand, I am not a landscaper or landscape designer. In fact, as we discussed before, my business liability insurance specifically forbids me from doing any sort of "design" work. I believe the word "engineer" in my insurance application probably brought that on. No way they wanted to cover me for any sort of "errors and omissions" in regard to any kind of design work I might be tempted to do.

The advice I am giving these potential clients is all about the options they've got for accomplishing their particular design or functional goals. No way I could ever charge for that sort of advice. That's the most basic first step toward defining and proposing the work to be done.

As I said, I am enjoying getting out there and meeting these people with yard problems, redesign ideas and any other kind of TLB-related work to be done. It is part of my education and indoctrination into this dirt and debris moving world. No regrets yet... but for now, the water's still running and the lights are still on.

Dougster

I guess I keep hearing you say what you won't, can't should not do, but have not heard much about what you do. Maybe I am just missing it.

My point in that last post was that when you are out there giving that advice, you should consider charging them for that. IT IS COSTING YOU MONEY. If you do this constantly, and do not AT lEAST cover your costs, you will be shutting down and doing something different. If you do not feel that you are giving them something of value by you being there, that is a basic problem that you should look at.

On the next front, from my impression on what I see here (and I am certain I do not view the "whole" deal) You are too limited on what you are willing (for whatever reason you choose, insurance, desire, ability etc) to do, and tasks you want to accomplish, to work directly with homeowners and have a successful business. Most homeowners want turn key, point to a spot in the yard and say "I want a beautiful flower bed there" PERIOD, how much will it cost me. From my view, you are only willing to do a small part of that and expect the HO to track down and work out the rest. My experience has been that that aint gonna happen.

I am honestly not trying to be critical, as in the end, if you succeede or fail, it really will not effect me in any manner. I am just trying to offer you an insight as to what I see as a guy that has played at the side of this business for the past 15+ years while my wife is in the middle of it every day. I also know that I certainly do not have all the answers, and would love to hear from someone that has cracked the code on employee's as that has absolutely been our greatest problem.

I guess could you spell out for me, in simple terms (if you are interested) what work you do.

 

[Dougster]

I guess I keep hearing you say what you won't, can't should not do, but have not heard much about what you do. Maybe I am just missing it... You are too limited on what you are willing (for whatever reason you choose, insurance, desire, ability etc) to do, and tasks you want to accomplish, to work directly with homeowners and have a successful business. Most homeowners want turn key, point to a spot in the yard and say "I want a beautiful flower bed there" PERIOD, how much will it cost me. From my view, you are only willing to do a small part of that and expect the HO to track down and work out the rest. My experience has been that that aint gonna happen..

Totally appropriate and valid criticisms Alan. You are right on the money. Mine is a limited specialty service company by design. I am clearly restricted in some areas and I am not qualified in others. And while I wish I could do total turnkey landscaping, I can't. I am too old and too physically handicapped to do a lot of manual work... and I have no intention to hire illegals to do it for me (which is exactly what I would have to do). I am anything but a competent landscape designer... and I will never be a residential lawn care service either. I have no interest in that work whatsoever. I am a one man show... a small time specialty contractor with a particular mission and set of capabilities derived from my engineering & construction background and my hurricane recovery work. If this little business idea works, great. If it doesn't work, I go back to an office job and wait there behind a desk and computer to grow older and die.

I guess could you spell out for me, in simple terms (if you are interested) what work you do.

Extracted from my Beta website:
Stump Removals
Drywells Installed
General Site Prep Work
Landscape Assistance
Post-Storm Clean-Ups
Fallen Tree Removals
Trenching and Regrading
Bush-hogging and Mowing
Tilling, Raking, Post Holes Dug
Materials Delivery and Removal

Extracted from my Beta website's FAQ:
We offer virtually all landscape assistance and tractor-related services including grading, tilling, raking, mowing, brush hogging, trenching, posthole digging, stump removal, rock removal, sidewalk removal, drywell installation, French drains, gravel driveway and road restoration, materials placement and debris disposal. We also offer comprehensive post-storm cleanups including fallen tree removals.

Extracted from one of my ads:
Economical Compact Utility Tractor / Front End Loader / Backhoe Services - We also perform all 3-point hitch-related tractor work. We rototill, rake, grade and cut! We install drywells and yard drainage systems. We remove stumps, yard debris and fallen trees. We deliver and remove landscape/waste materials.

Dougster

 

[AlanB]

I am guessing a "beta" website mean's it is not up?

How will people find you / know if you when these fairly "special" and one time job's come up?

You doing stump removal with the hoe or do you have a stump grinder?

Who is your customer? HO, contractor, Landscaper's ? or better translated, who are you talking too trying to gain business?

Oh, and not all workers are illegals. There are a bunch on H2B as well as others. I would say at a minimum, if you are not phsically able to do a bunch of legwork yourself, you always need at least one person on the ground to support the tractor.

Will you install fences?

From what I see above, if I was trying to make my tractor pay, I would be out bush hogging. And my experience is that it is Risky business at best, the liabilities, and equipment damage on bush hogging unkown area's is high.

The second thing I would do, would be to get off the computer, and be out there talking with general contractors, landscapers etc. that are too small to have their own equipment. I would be at the COC getting thier lists and the county tax office getting their lists.

I would sit down in the evening and call every mowing / landscaper in the paper and just talk with them about how you could help them. How your niche, experience and equipment will help them to solve a problem, but remember, most of these (us) guys are on the edge of profitablity anyway so unless I see where you are saving me something, I am not hiring.

My thought would be if you were around me, I would hire you to get the stuff there on time, at a good price, so I could have my crew go from install to install and save them from running back and forth picking things (materials plants etc. up) Ie, here is my materials list, I need this at this adress on 26 June at 1000. I need these items placed at the right locations in the yard.

And you have to be able to do that cheaper then I can do it myself.

 

[Dougster]

I am guessing a "beta" website mean's it is not up? How will people find you / know if you when these fairly "special" and one time job's come up? You doing stump removal with the hoe or do you have a stump grinder? Who is your customer? HO, contractor, Landscaper's ? or better translated, who are you talking too trying to gain business? Will you install fences?

Hi Alan - You asked for what I do and that was a fast, convenient way to list all the things I hope to do... no more, no less. The Beta website is actually down right now for maintenance. I was Just trying to show you that I actually do plan to do some things!

I honestly do appreciate the input... I value it all... even including the most harsh criticisms, but no time to reply right now. I'm off to a multi-day family wedding event and will be mostly out of touch through the weekend.

Dougster

 

[patrick_g]

Accepting the fact that you are right about this... (Pat's comentary on newbies ruining the market place) what do you feel is my best strategy for survival? We all know that the competition out there is tough... especially from illegals... but what can I do (other than quit and return to my office and wait to die there)?

Dougster

Dougster, You need to find something that you can do that not everyone else can or will do. Or else you need to do something for customers that not everyone else does. Appreciation letters were mentioned, coupons for discounts on future work. My Ford dealer asked me if someone recommended them and I gave them a name of a friend. The friend got $50. If I refer a customer who buys then I get $50. Direct referrals with $50 (or whatever amount) are cheaper than broad based advertising that hardly gets noticed by potential customers.

If you can't carve out a niche or do something to stand out from the crowd you will find it hard to be noticed or get hired ahead of a newbie willing to "give away the store."

If there are too many "weeds" (lowballing newbies) in the garden (business you choose to do) then you will be choked out. There is NO GUARANTEE that a particular line of work or business activity has the capacity to throw off enough income to support an operator after paying all costs including insurance and a set aside fund for maint. If not doing a tractor job leaves you further ahead than doing a tractor job then maybe you are chasing the WRONG customers. If you can't make enough to afford to maintain your equipment than the deferred maintenance will eventually be a gotcha that can ruin your (would be) profitability.

Wishful thinking instead of realistic analysis of business opportunities/climate have been the ruin of many a start up.

Pat

 

[ducati996]

For some odd reason either the state or town and or/his insurance limits him from seeking business ( i would cancel the policy and go elsewhere through a broker) He cant park a dump truck 26k lbs or under (note under) in his driveway (with no signs) because or town ordinance ( i would double check that -and fight it if true)
At this point you either find a way to make it work, or call it a hobby because the IRS will do it for you -
The only thing I can suggest is to do a few acquistions (of thriving established businesses) since it seems you cant physically do it or hire someone who can. The busy season is now, so you either make it happen or its a long fall and winter with no income. Im not trying to be sarcastic or condenscending here, just laying out some of the options left for you -

Duc

 

[workinallthetime]

it is the height of the dirt season, i hate to see someone strugle this time of year unless its my competition . doug will get it i just hope he does before he runs out of time.

 

[john_bud]

We all know that the competition out there is tough... especially from illegals... but what can I do (other than quit and return to my office and wait to die there)?

Dougster

Put ICE on your speed dial and call them on cheap illegal labor.


(just best be right about the illegal part...)

jb

 

[AlanB]

I had two thoughts while out weedeating yesterday for my REAL boss....

1. Go to Johnstones, or other AC supply house, not sure what you have, or how much AC you have, but anyway, most the supply houses will have a board.

Make up a sign that says you can pick up their replacement outside AC units at the shop, and help them set it with your tractor. Many small time guys don't have open trucks, and many just manhandle them into place.

2. If I had a dump and truck and tractor, I would print some cards that said short load hauls, or 4 ton hauls or whatever. Then a box of donuts and a pot of coffee on a Monday morning to the closest quarry with a pack of cards for the office staff. See if they will give your card to the folks that want less then the commercial guys are willing to haul, then the follow on job of spreading it would probably come your way as well.

 

[Dougster]

For some odd reason either the state or town and or/his insurance limits him from seeking business ( i would cancel the policy and go elsewhere through a broker) He cant park a dump truck 26k lbs or under (note under) in his driveway (with no signs) because or town ordinance ( i would double check that -and fight it if true).

On the business liability insurance: I am actually very happy with both the terms and payments I ended up with. Took a long time and a lot of searching to get here. If you think I am limited now... you should have seen the other quotes and restrictions I was facing. Having a backhoe business is a big insurance deal around here. The fact that I can't do landscape design work doesn't bother me one bit. I have zero skills or interest in that area.

On the restrictions related to me doing business out of my home in a residential zoned neighborhood: Once again, I fought hard for this business license and cut the best deal I could under the circumstances. Technically, I am in violation of the zoning bylaws and they eventually granted me a waiver. Took a while and a lot of work and I am very grateful for that waiver. No way I want or can afford to pay rent for commercial space at this time.

At this point you either find a way to make it work, or call it a hobby because the IRS will do it for you.

Ouch!!! That would be extremely painful. I think the main qualitative thing that would help me if that ever became an issue is the fact that no one in their right mind would ever do what I am doing merely as a fun hobby to pass the time. Lock that man up!!!

The only thing I can suggest is to do a few acquistions (of thriving established businesses) since it seems you cant physically do it or hire someone who can. The busy season is now, so you either make it happen or its a long fall and winter with no income. Im not trying to be sarcastic or condenscending here, just laying out some of the options left for you - Duc

There are no thriving businesses in this area doing what I am trying to do. The whole idea of this business was to fill a niche that I believed existed and that I felt was underserved... this whole concept of do-it-yourself homeowner landscape assistance. I did my research, I made my investment, I took my chances. Now I find out that the market is very soft for my "product" and I am trying to adjust without giving up entirely on the initial concept.

One last time: Lord knows that I have made my mistakes getting started. Almost too many to count. Numerous adjustments have been made and will continue to be made. But it doesn't mean I'm going to give up and it doesn't mean I need to become a landscape designer or a lawn maintenance company. The worst that happens is that I go back to a full-time consulting/engineering job and this becomes my part-time weekend job. Despite some of the things I've said from time to time, it would not be the end of the world.

Dougster