Need to Make some money with my Tractor.

[EddieWalker]

Doug,

You mentioned earlier that you are getting calls and have met with potential clients, but haven't gotten the jobs. Getting the call is the most important and hardest part of being self employed. People are calling you, so your marketing is working. You're not getting the job because your not selling yourself and your services very well.

People keep mentioning price, but I don't think that's the problem. People hire me because of my attitude and how we get along when we talk face to face. It's all about sales, personality and the impression you convey when talking about their project. If it's something you can't do, or don't know how to do, tell them and offer some solutions. If it's something that they are not being realistic about, tell them and offer a few suggestions, but walk away from those jobs. If it's something you are interested in doing and want the job, let them know it.

I've walked away from plenty of jobs because there is no way I'd put my name on what they wanted done. If I can't do something and know that it's right, then I won't do it. If they are not realistic in what they want done, I tell them so and wish them all the best. Sometimes they call me back after they've talked to others and realized that they need to rethink their plans. Sometimes they call me back because I was the only one who was honest with them. And sometimes I get a call back to fix what the low price guy did after I refused to do for what they wanted. And sometimes I never hear from them again, but that's fine too. I only takes one bad job to ruin your reputation and give fuel for people to bad mouth your services.

When I meet clients for the first time, I dress nice, have my notepad, calculator, graph paper and tape measure ready. I write down what they want and listen real close to what they hope to achieve. If it's a simple repair, I give them a simple price. If it's something more involved, I walk them through the process and explain the potential problems.

It's rare that we talk about money right away. First thing we do is talk about the job. Money is there and they want to spend it, but they want something for that money and a few bucks one way or another rarely kills a deal.

I also like to offer suggestions and point out things that they might not have considered. Most people who hire others to do work for them only have a vague idea of what they want. I tell them to tear out pictures from magazines, but very few of them do this. They think they know what they want, but almost always fail in the details.

This takes time and is where you are selling yourself. Manners are critical, but listening is the key. Never interupt or cut them off. Don't talk too much, they want to do the talking and didn't call you there to listen to your stories. Not that this is something you do, but there are allot of contractors out there who love to tell stories, visit and just hang out with the client. They also rarely get anything done and tend to rely on their ability to BS then actually finish a project.

When I started out, I bought a program and printed my own business cards. Things were slow then and I was charging allot less then I do today. I thought my cards were nice looking, had all my information on them and were not that big a deal. Of course, I was wrong. Everything about you, from your car to your clothes to your business card reflects who you are. I now have nicely printed business cards that give the impression to my clients that I'm a profesional there to do a job.

Most people don't even ask for references, but since a few do, I always have a few sheets printed up for them. When somebody asks for something, I like to have it available right away.

I used to cary a photo album with pics of project that I've done to show clients, but that took way too much time and it got us off track for their project. I do allot of different things, so we can spend an hour looking at pics when there was only one or two that related to what they wanted. I now have a blog on google that has some pics of diferent things I've done. I put that address on my business cards and let them look at the pictures when they like. This has worked out really well for me.

I rarely advertise anymore, but will run an add in the local free classifieds paper from time to time. I haven't tried Craigslist, but might consider it the next time things are slow and I'm looking for work. Too much advertising can be a problem as I can only do so much and have to turn down work. Some people will wait for me, and others are willing to be worked into my schedule when I'm free, but most want it done, and when they call, they don't like to be told that I'm too busy for them. That is my biggest issue right now and something I'm working on.

Hope this helps,
Eddie

 

[Dougster]

Doug, You mentioned earlier that you are getting calls and have met with potential clients, but haven't gotten the jobs. Getting the call is the most important and hardest part of being self employed. People are calling you, so your marketing is working. You're not getting the job because your not selling yourself and your services very well. Hope this helps, Eddie

Thanks Eddie... all very good points. Yes, I am getting the calls (Thank God) and giving out enough quotes... but you are probably onto something in regard to the salemanship aspects. One big joke at this past weekend's family event was that I just don't look the part of the typical, highly experienced TLB operator. And it's true! I look like an engineer. I speak like an engineer. I raise issues and questions like an engineer. Heck... that's because I are an engineer!!! That is not always a good thing when discussing other folk's pet projects.

I do dress nicely when I go out. I carry the business cards, the notebook and my new digital camera (although, oddly, I rarely take pictures unless absolutely necessary out of a concern for client privacy). But I do not yet have the salesman's killer instincts for how to deal with and land a difficult job... a job that's either physically risky, legally risky or not well suited for my equipment. I let my concerns show... which I shouldn't do. I'm sure it comes off as inexperienced or as a lack of self-confidence to some people. I am often too vocal about understanding and addressing the legal aspects... which I maybe shouldn't bring up at that time. I am sure that I make it all seem more complicated than anyone else they get to come out and look at the same job. Again, this is the engineer in me... and the lack of salesman in me.

I am clearly getting better at it with every new quote... unless the quote is on a totally impossible job. This is why I don't mind going out and giving all these quotes: It's serious practice for where I ultimately need to be.

Dougster

 

[LoneCowboy]

I think that's a good point.
Every job I lose, I try to look back and think "what could I have done different to land that job? What did I do wrong?"

I know I've improved as a salesguy going along and getting to that close.
But even then, sometimes it doesn't work out.

Can't get 'em if you don't bid 'em.

 

[riptides]

I think that's a good point.
Every job I lose, I try to look back and think "what could I have done different to land that job? What did I do wrong?"

I know I've improved as a salesguy going along and getting to that close.
But even then, sometimes it doesn't work out.

Can't get 'em if you don't bid 'em.

Hey Dougster,

Ahh, have you asked the client why you did not get the job?

I think LoneCowboy is right.

-Mike Z.

 

[Dougster]

Hey Dougster, Ahh, have you asked the client why you did not get the job? I think LoneCowboy is right.
-Mike Z.

Don't need to be a rocket scientist on most of them to figure them out. I've lost at least a couple jobs on pure scheduling issues. I've lost probably four jobs so far based on money (good work but owner found someone cheaper). I've lost several based on legal complexities... wetlands issues, owner not wanting to involve digsafe, owner not wanting to get building permit, demolition permit, etc. Several have been because of inappropriate equipment for the job and/or too much physical risk (typically working steep slopes, working over or around septic systems, etc.)... and I lost one because I told the guy he needed a civil engineering plan for what he wanted to do (remove the foundation around and under his antique house and barn). That's pretty much it so far.

Or maybe they just didn't like my looks!

Dougster

 

[rox]

Dougster,
Imagine so many people taking their time here to help you, what a great neighborhood it is here on TBN. Eddie raised all the salient points. I'll offer one suggestion. The next time you go out to quote a job take somebody with you as a a silent (and I do mean silent) observer. After the sales call clench you teeth and and try not to talk and interrupt and listen to what your silent observers feedback is to you of the sales presentation yu jsut made.

Not everybody is cut out for sales. Not to say this in a bad way about my hsuband but when it comes to sales he has absolutly no sklls whatsoever!!! he spent his whole adult life as a Chef as a buyer. he bought meat, he bought, dry goods, he bought tablecloths etc. so his whole life he has been the buyer. He never even really booked that many parties. he always had a manager who booked the parties and he would sjut participate in offerig different menu ideas. I will say one thing he is a heck of a fantastic buyer. the man knows how to buy.

So now we bought an olive farm and through a bizzar set of circumstances found out after we paid for the place that we didn't ahve a single customer. The former owners, the husband died and the wife claimed all these records were jsut in his head, yeah right! We now have olive oil that we needed to sell. So being in France, being married to a frenchman who obviously speaks perfect french you would think he has the edge to sell. Wrong.

All he does is talk talk talk BS BS BS, he never askes for an order etc. Even the open air fairs we do perhaps 3 per year, even those where he is selling diretly to the public rather than of securing a new store or a distributor, even direct face to face sales he jsut doesn't sell near as much as I do with my crappy French langauge skills. Basically he doesn't like sales and told me this before we bought the farm, and he makes every mistake there is, just about every single wrong thing Eddie mentioned above, my husband does related to sales.

As in any good partnership you go with your strengths we each have strengths in different areas. I had a lot of sales experience in my 20's and early 30's so I manage the sales. Thankfully he has other redeeming qualities, so as long as I can pick up that part of the business it works out good for our partnership. Believe me I live with a poor sales skills guy and he even knows it himself and says it right out. If you are getting quotes and not getting sales then an independent observer will help show you where improvement is needed. I totally think Eddie has hit the nail on the head.

People want to talk aobut their project, they want to talk about themselves, and if you want the sale a huge part of winning the sale is encouraging them to talk about themselves, their ideas and their needs.

Here I got another one for oyu. My son is jsut out of the Peace Corps moved to Savanah Georgia because his friend jsut got a job there. All his life he has done restaurant work. So while he is looking for that good entry level job in his field he needs to put food on the table so he basically needed any job. He decided to try something different than restauratn work. So of all the jbs out there he takes a straight commission insurance sales job in a community he moved to the previus week. It is strictly get on the phone all day cold calling business owners about their business health insurance needs and with only 8 days on the job he closed a sale and got a $1,200 commission. The kid knew nothing about Health Insurance only what he learned that week, had never been on a professional sales call, this was his first one. But he has an innate quality that is quite valuable. peopel simply like him. They are drawn to him. There is somthing aobut him, the way he communicates the way he listens to you, he focuses on you and not him, or soemthing you cna't really put your finger on, but the kid has got "it." And truthfully he is a terrific young man.

Point being people listen to many different sales presentations but they usually buy from people they like. If you have a good product that people need and people like you they will buy from you. There msut be something in your sales approach that is not getting you the job if you are out there making presentations. An independent observer will help you.

 

[rox]

Don't need to be a rocket scientist on most of them to figure them out. I've lost at least a couple jobs on pure scheduling issues. I've lost probably four jobs so far based on money (good work but owner found someone cheaper). I've lost several based on legal complexities... wetlands issues, owner not wanting to involve digsafe, owner not wanting to get building permit, demolition permit, etc. Several have been because of inappropriate equipment for the job and/or too much physical risk (typically working steep slopes, working over or around septic systems, etc.)... and I lost one because I told the guy he needed a civil engineering plan for what he wanted to do (remove the foundation around and under his antique house and barn). That's pretty much it so far.

Or maybe they just didn't like my looks!

Dougster

Dougster while I was writing up my last comment you posted this comment. I don't always go with the cheapest guy, but I alwasy go with the guy who my gut tells me has he skills and I like. Not being the cheapest won't automatically loose you the sale. For the guy who wanted to remove the basement can hear my son ask the question, "have you considered having an architectural engineer look at the job?" That is jsut how my son would put it. Then he would shut up and listen to the owner. Gently and easily he would flesh out the need for an engineer on the job, and in fact he probably would never turn down the job. he would probably jsut say,

"Okay I have seen your project, it looks very challenging and interesting and I am very interested in doing your job, may I get back to you tomorrow with a quotation, it would be int he early evening?" Then the next day he would call the owner back and say, "I would want to do your job the right way and technicaly it is very challenging, you have some Challenges here. So i made a few phone calls and I did find a structural engineer and talked about the highlights of your project, we had a very high level conceptual discussion. He was a great guy really knowledgable and in fact his rates i was surprised were not all that much. He only charges $125 per hour and i'm guessing that your job would take him about 7 hours, again this is only my guess and i didn't go into a lot of detail with him. Would you consider bringing in a structural engineer? I would feel better about accepting the job, which believe me I do want, if we knew that we could do it safely and accomplish your end goals. What do you think is the best approach for your project?" Then stop talking.

In my experience this is the type of approach that wins you jobs that you wouldn't ordinarily take. You win it but you softly bring the client over to winning it your way. The only way they will come over to your way is if they like you. Then like Eddie says if you cna't win the job in a way that you feel good about you do have to walk away. Basically find a way to win every sale.

You said you lost these jobs- owner not wanting to involve digsafe, owner not wanting to get building permit, demolition permit, Could you ahve offered to accompany the owner to the Building inspector and go together to get the appropriate permits. If you are mainly working in one or two communities ahve you been to the buildig inspectors office and pick yourself up a couple blank permits so you have them with and offer to help the owner apply for one, including physically going to city hall and turning it in for them. Did you offer to show them the permits you have with and assure them that they are not all that hard do complete? People will hire the person who gives that little extra service. not that you have to be a panting dog but you can offer in a nice way that doesn't transmit that you are desperate for the job they need done. Are you going the extra mile for the custoer or are you focused mainly on yourself and "it's not my job, they need to do their own permitting"?

 

[Dougster]

Hi Rox - Thanks very much for taking the time to lay that all out. Yes, this is a wonderful website. Frankly, I don't know where I'd be without it at times.

Lord knows I am not the world's greatest salesman. My Dad was a lot closer to that description... but not me. Even my brother is probably a better salesman than I am as it's a big part of his lifelong job. It's certainly clear that salesmanship is a critical part of this new career of mine. I will consider bringing along an observer, although the logistics of arranging to have a qualified and respected evaluator of my salemanship skills may not be so easy. Folks call and I am there same day if not same hour. Quick response is a key facet of my business plan. Still, I will consider your idea and see what I can do when the opportunity next presents itself.

In regard to the all-important "likeability" factor, I did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I am an old man now and after a 33-year professional career traveling all over the states and the world, I am reasonably well-traveled, well-spoken, at least acceptably polished, polite and friendly. I know about listening and I know how to carry on a conversation. In my previous career we even took classes in these various personal skills as well as the professional ones. I approach every potential client as I would want to be approached: with respect, integrity, openness, honesty and a smile. I never talk down to anyone and I listen to every idea no matter how scary!

My biggest weakness is clearly not knowing enough yet about the small business world in general... especially effective business-to-business networking... and residential tractor and backhoe work in particular. It's unfortunate, but much of my heavy construction background has not translated as well as hoped into the skills required of a small tractor service. Even my hurricane recovery work has not been as valuable to this new small business effort as I had hoped and thought it would be. I am still climbing that learning curve... as quickly as I can... but there is no easy way around that fact.

To a large extent (if you haven't already picked up on it), this is all about me picking and choosing my first year jobs and clients as carefully and intelligently as possible. If I end up rejecting far more than I end up doing, so be it. I only want to do the jobs that I can do safely, legally and satisfactorily. You may not believe it from some of my posts, but the money is absolutely secondary. If I can't do a good job and make my clients happy, I don't want the work.

Much of the advice I've received here has been extremely helpful in both direct and indirect ways. Some has just been goofing and pig piling on... but I don't mind that either. If this website wasn't fun, none of us would be here. But rest assured that there is more "method to my madness" than I am letting on. I'd love this new small business to work, but only on my own terms. If it was only about the sales and the money, I would go back to my old career in a heartbeat. Rather, it is all about making it and surviving on my own. I've always admired those folks that are able to do that. I want to be one of them if it doesn't break me first!

Dougster

 

[Builder]

Go down to your local supermarket and you know how they have those community bulletin boards?

Put up an ad on it that reads something like this:

"CHEAP BACKHOE SERVICE"

"I'll do odd jobs, move dirt piles, dig drainage lines, dig up old concrete, etc." "

"$75/hour" (or whatever you want to charge)

CALL 555-555-5555

It works. Put other flyers on signs, local stores, libraries. etc.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Go down to your local supermarket and you know how they have those community bulletin boards?

Put up an ad on it that reads something like this:

"CHEAP BACKHOE SERVICE"

"I'll do odd jobs, move dirt piles, dig drainage lines, dig up old concrete, etc." "

"$75/hour" (or whatever you want to charge)

CALL 555-555-5555

It works. Put other flyers on signs, local stores, libraries. etc.

Not only does it work, you'll get a better return on investment than with newspaper adds, ect. If you get all the work you have time for, add cost is easy to overlook. With a struggling business, advertising cost can eat you alive. Bulletin boards and flyers are ALMOST free.

When we first thought about starting the mowing business, I looked at newspaper adds. 30 day, 1" adds in a business section of our morning paper was almost $400. With overhead, wages, ect, an add would need to bring in $1000 worth of work just to end up back at square 1. A simple 1" "want add" may or may not bring in that sort of response. I'd rather keep that $400 than mail it to the local fish wrapper printer

Print up a flyer on the ol' computer, make a few hundred copies, spend $10 or $20 bucks at the outside, and stick those flyers on every bulletin board, store window, and even in your billings that you send out. Circulate them any way possible. They'll bring in more business that you'd ever believe possible from something so simple.

The flyer I posted in several locations has drawn quite a response. I used a picture of one of my tractors for "flash" at the top of the page. I posted less than 20 flyers and have recieved AT LEAST 250 job calls from them. Out of those, I've landed at least 50 good jobs. (One of the best reponses was from the bulletin board at TSC. Another good one is the community bulletin board at our post office)