Need to replace trailer jack

[ponytug]

I'm not sure about mixing a batch spray; I suppose you could keep the phos-check on hand and only toss it into the tank if a big fire comes (possibly spray the house down lol). I expect I'll keep the 400 gallon tank full most of the time, fire or no.

I wonder if the phos-check would mind being in water with detergent?

Personally, I would not keep retardant spray premixed, unless the entire system was plastic, down to and including the impeller shaft on the pump. I think it is just asking for trouble. From a corrosion perspective, I think leaving standing water in systems is never a great idea. Trace or larger amounts of sulphate and a lack of air gets anaerobic bacteria going and corrosion goes quickly. Plus, when it is diluted out, there are lots of things that like phosphate and will start growing. That means secret sauces, e.g. biocides and corrosion inhibitors. So, I would advocate for fill, dose, mix, use, repeat as needed, rinse, and leave dry.

I view retardant spraying as a barrier method, like ripping or disc harrowing fields. The goal is to create a swath of material that isn't actually flaming. That cuts down the heat, the flames, and reduces blowing embers. The Forest Service has a series of YouTube videos that go over home and site hardening, and forensic discussion of why certain homes burned. The CalFire home hardening and defensible space materials convey similar information;

Home - Ready for Wildfire CAL FIRE Safety & Preparedness Tips

Equip yourself with CAL FIRE's wildfire safety tips and tools. Learn to protect your home and community in California. Start today!

readyforwildfire.org

I guess that Phos-check could be sprayed on houses, but I do not know the efficacy of that; I suspect that you would want enough of clay/gum to get it to stick to vertical surfaces, and that's not going to be easy to get off (so, good and bad). Real (red) Phos-check overspray is associated with reports of rust stains, but in my book it comes down to "would you rather have a house that needs cleaning or repainting, or be trying to design and build a new home"? Sometimes it amazes me what folks complain about. There is a clear version of Phos-Check and a version with a dye that bleaches in sunlight, a "fungitive dye".

I'm not pushing Phos-check in particular; it has been in the market for 60 plus years, so there is a lot of data on it. To me it is a placeholder for ammonium polyphosphate based retardants.

The nice thing about ammonium polyphosphate type flame retardants is that they are persistent until the next rains. Barrier foam lasts a minutes to a few hours, and barrier gels half a day to day or so, especially in the dry heat typically present during fire season which is most locations. That means being at a house and treating it within 6-24 hours of burn over. That's a little too close to fire for my liking. Someone here had an automatic foam system that would coat the walls minutes before fire arrival, but the system he had didn't stay on the market.

With regards to detergent, the phosphate won't care, and everything else, the clay or guar gum, and the rust is just going to stay in solution better.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ning]

Personally, I would not keep retardant spray premixed, unless the entire system was plastic, down to and including the impeller shaft on the pump. I think it is just asking for trouble. From a corrosion perspective, I think leaving standing water in systems is never a great idea. Trace or larger amounts of sulphate and a lack of air gets anaerobic bacteria going and corrosion goes quickly. Plus, when it is diluted out, there are lots of things that like phosphate and will start growing. That means secret sauces, e.g. biocides and corrosion inhibitors. So, I would advocate for fill, dose, mix, use, repeat as needed, rinse, and leave dry.

I view retardant spraying as a barrier method, like ripping or disc harrowing fields. The goal is to create a swath of material that isn't actually flaming. That cuts down the heat, the flames, and reduces blowing embers. The Forest Service has a series of YouTube videos that go over home and site hardening, and forensic discussion of why certain homes burned. The CalFire home hardening and defensible space materials convey similar information;

Home - Ready for Wildfire CAL FIRE Safety & Preparedness Tips

Equip yourself with CAL FIRE's wildfire safety tips and tools. Learn to protect your home and community in California. Start today!

readyforwildfire.org

I guess that Phos-check could be sprayed on houses, but I do not know the efficacy of that; I suspect that you would want enough of clay/gum to get it to stick to vertical surfaces, and that's not going to be easy to get off (so, good and bad). Real (red) Phos-check overspray is associated with reports of rust stains, but in my book it comes down to "would you rather have a house that needs cleaning or repainting, or be trying to design and build a new home"? Sometimes it amazes me what folks complain about. There is a clear version of Phos-Check and a version with a dye that bleaches in sunlight, a "fungitive dye".

I'm not pushing Phos-check in particular; it has been in the market for 60 plus years, so there is a lot of data on it. To me it is a placeholder for ammonium polyphosphate based retardants.

The nice thing about ammonium polyphosphate type flame retardants is that they are persistent until the next rains. Barrier foam lasts a minutes to a few hours, and barrier gels half a day to day or so, especially in the dry heat typically present during fire season which is most locations. That means being at a house and treating it within 6-24 hours of burn over. That's a little too close to fire for my liking. Someone here had an automatic foam system that would coat the walls minutes before fire arrival, but the system he had didn't stay on the market.

With regards to detergent, the phosphate won't care, and everything else, the clay or guar gum, and the rust is just going to stay in solution better.

All the best,

Peter

You occasionally see houses get hit by the retardant drops; my neighbor's house was temporarily changed from light gray to red-tinged in 2017.
He definitely hasn't repainted it; not sure if he ever did anything about the retardant on the house or if rains and time took care of it for him.

Talking to a local tree crew owner who does a lot of work with CalFire during the burning seasons, lately mostly saw sharpening & maintenance but previously dozer work too; he said talking with fire investigators that they found a lot of houses caught fire through windows - radiant heat catching stuff inside the windows on fire. Makes me want to build iron shutters on my next house like the gold rush buildings have!

 

[ponytug]

You occasionally see houses get hit by the retardant drops; my neighbor's house was temporarily changed from light gray to red-tinged in 2017.
He definitely hasn't repainted it; not sure if he ever did anything about the retardant on the house or if rains and time took care of it for him.

Talking to a local tree crew owner who does a lot of work with CalFire during the burning seasons, lately mostly saw sharpening & maintenance but previously dozer work too; he said talking with fire investigators that they found a lot of houses caught fire through windows - radiant heat catching stuff inside the windows on fire. Makes me want to build iron shutters on my next house like the gold rush buildings have!

View attachment 898418

There is also thermal (fire) resistant glass. It is less likely to shatter and is supposed to block some of the infrared heat.

FWIW: From a fire perspective, wood shutters are more insulating than metal, but if it were me, I would make them out of fire resistant wood and coat the shutters with intumescent paint, if it were me. I'm sitting on that fence myself at the moment, though I'm considering roll up metal shutters.

I feel as if fire hardening is one of those loose thread things, where you pull on a little thread and then...

All the best,

Peter

 

[ning]

There is also thermal (fire) resistant glass. It is less likely to shatter and is supposed to block some of the infrared heat.

FWIW: From a fire perspective, wood shutters are more insulating than metal, but if it were me, I would make them out of fire resistant wood and coat the shutters with intumescent paint, if it were me. I'm sitting on that fence myself at the moment, though I'm considering roll up metal shutters.

I feel as if fire hardening is one of those loose thread things, where you pull on a little thread and then...

All the best,

Peter

Iron definitely absorbs a lot of heat - and I don't want to think of how much the iron in those shutters would cost these days - but I don't know that they'll get hot enough just from radiant heat to get to the ignition point of whatever they're in contact with?

 

[ponytug]

Did I mention that I was fence sitting?

You could probably get the shutters water jet cut, but then you get into wall loading once it isn't lightweight sheet metal, and modern windows are a little larger than Gold Rush vintage windows. Did I mention that I was fence sitting?...

All the best,

Peter

 

[ning]

Did I mention that I was fence sitting?

You could probably get the shutters water jet cut, but then you get into wall loading once it isn't lightweight sheet metal, and modern windows are a little larger than Gold Rush vintage windows. Did I mention that I was fence sitting?...

All the best,

Peter

What about wood shutters with the "outside" wrapped with sheet metal? perhaps aluminum? Should be light enough to hang and still be protective.
Has real potential to be a serious eyesore, but perhaps some sort of chemical treatment to put a pattern on them or something.

 

[ponytug]

What about wood shutters with the "outside" wrapped with sheet metal? perhaps aluminum? Should be light enough to hang and still be protective.
Has real potential to be a serious eyesore, but perhaps some sort of chemical treatment to put a pattern on them or something.

I've thought about that, as well. Since the shutters are usually open, wouldn't the sheet metal normally be against the house? So, I don't think that would be an eyesore day to day, though I agree on the potential. I think that large windows would need double or trifold hinges not to look too silly, though I have thought about shutters that fold up toward the soffit, but as you write real eyesore potential.

Given the very low melting point of aluminum, I would be inclined to use galvanized. I would bet that an HVAC duct shop could whip out the pieces, complete with 4x90 edges pretty quickly.

I do think that getting gutters and eaves debris free, the first 5-10' free on anything combustible, and the 5-30' zone generally free of clutter and anything tall, or a source of fuel (furniture, propane, etc.) is probably more important, as that would get significant flames/heat at least 30' away. For us, it is a change of habits, and we aren't always a 100%. I try to be, but you get the patio furniture out, turn on the BBQ, and it all doesn't go back the second we are done with it. I need to set up a BBQ area farther from the house. We are stilllooking for outdoor furniture that isn't very flammable.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Too many Kubotas]

I had aluminum covers for the garage windows on the garage in SoCal that I put up when it looked threatening, which it did frequently in the fall, and the skylights had reinforced glass.

Those measures were to hopefully prevent large wind borne objects on fire to penetrate.

 

[ning]

I've thought about that, as well. Since the shutters are usually open, wouldn't the sheet metal normally be against the house? So, I don't think that would be an eyesore day to day, though I agree on the potential. I think that large windows would need double or trifold hinges not to look too silly, though I have thought about shutters that fold up toward the soffit, but as you write real eyesore potential.

Given the very low melting point of aluminum, I would be inclined to use galvanized. I would bet that an HVAC duct shop could whip out the pieces, complete with 4x90 edges pretty quickly.

I do think that getting gutters and eaves debris free, the first 5-10' free on anything combustible, and the 5-30' zone generally free of clutter and anything tall, or a source of fuel (furniture, propane, etc.) is probably more important, as that would get significant flames/heat at least 30' away. For us, it is a change of habits, and we aren't always a 100%. I try to be, but you get the patio furniture out, turn on the BBQ, and it all doesn't go back the second we are done with it. I need to set up a BBQ area farther from the house. We are stilllooking for outdoor furniture that isn't very flammable.

All the best,

Peter

Aluminum melts at 1221°F... considering how it doesn't like holding onto heat, I don't think it melting is a concern, and not worrying about corrosion against your house when the shutters are open is a plus.