need to rewire the KAMA TS254C

[Turbo]

the alternator will have power all the time it dose not go though the ign key only the 30 amp fuse protect it.
the jumper wire you put in will by passed the fuse and now goes directly to the battery , you now have no protection from a shorted alternator and can cause a fire should it fail, you need to remove the wire.
the wiring goes like this:
from the battery to the starter, from the starter to the 30 amp fuse block to the ammeter from the ammeter there are two wire one goes to the alternator and one goes to power the ign switch.

remove the jumper wire put the 30 amp fuse back in turn you key on tell me if you get lights

 

[greg_g]

One minor problem with your logic. You're offering advice based upon your interpretation of a Jinma wiring diagram. LakeSpirit and I are working off a TaiShan wiring diagram. Different manufacturer all together. If that's not clear enough, Jinmas and Taishans are not wired the same.

One thing they do share in common though - contrary to your claim - is that the alternator is not fused, never has been. This is confirmed in your very own wiring diagram. The alternator output is wired to the SUPPLY side of the fuse strip. Only stuff on the equipment side is fused. So adding a 2nd wire to the alternator output has no affect on anything at all, except giving the charging voltage a more direct path back to the battery.

There's absolutely nothing unsafe about the charging voltage bypass wire. It is a low charging voltage solution designed specifically for the Y85 engines - by an automotive electrical engineer in Wisconsin. LakeSpirit's TaiShan has a Y385 engine, I have a Y485. You likely have a Y386. Correctly constructed and properly installed, this wire poses no safety threat to YOUR tractor either. I have had the entire cold start package installed on TS354C for over two years and several hundred working hours. That includes the bypass wire. Outside the inconvenience of the charge/discharge condition no longer being accurately reflected by the ammeter, all the results have been 100% positive. Absolutely zero starting problems, no blown fuses, a healthy battery, and - surprise surprise - not one single fire.

//greg//

 

[Turbo]

Quote: One minor problem with your logic. You're offering advice based upon your interpretation of a Jinma wiring diagram. LakeSpirit and I are working off a TaiShan wiring diagram. Different manufacturer all together. If that's not clear enough, Jinmas and Taishans are not wired the same

I can't find a good diagram of the Kama, the one you put in here is not a wiring schematic it just a picture. if you have a good schematic I like to see it.
basically all vehicles are wired the same, battery to the fuse block, and from there to the systems you what to install. your house is wired the same way, except it is AC 120 volts.

Quote:One thing they do share in common though - contrary to your claim - is that the alternator is not fused, never has been. This is confirmed in your very own wiring diagram. The alternator output is wired to the SUPPLY side of the fuse strip. Only stuff on the equipment side is fused. So adding a 2nd wire to the alternator output has no affect on anything at all, except giving the charging voltage a more direct path back to the battery.

The Alternator is fused,, the battery goes to the starter to the fuse block.
though a 30 amp fuse to the ammeter to the alternator. when you ground out your alternator at the B = (battery) post the fuse will blow, and will shut down the hole system. that is why the have a rubber cap on the B post of the alternator.

Quote: There's absolutely nothing unsafe about the charging voltage bypass wire. It is a low charging voltage solution designed specifically for the Y85 engines - by an automotive electrical engineer in Wisconsin. LakeSpirit's TaiShan has a Y385 engine, I have a Y485. You likely have a Y386. Correctly constructed and properly installed, this wire poses no safety threat to YOUR tractor either. I have had the entire cold start package installed on TS354C for over two years and several hundred working hours. That includes the bypass wire. Outside the inconvenience of the charge/discharge condition no longer being accurately reflected by the ammeter, all the results have been 100% positive. Absolutely zero starting problems, no blown fuses, a healthy battery, and - surprise surprise - not one single fire.

All alternator systems are the same , and has nothing to do with the engine or vehicle make.

My problem is that if an electrical engineer had to come up with a by pass,
why not just fix the problem he is a electrical engineer right?
It's not like the wiring is stuff under a dash and can't get too.
the by pass has done nothing but by pass the fuse and ammeter and bing it right to the key. go ahead and short your B post out and see what happens. hopefully the jumper wire will burn out first..

There is only 5 possible problem an alternator system can have
1. Alternator stops working, brushes are the week link here
2. regulator bad , solid state very unlikely
3. ammeter bad goes to an open, very unlikely
4. fuse blow, alternator shorts out, and or wiring chafes and goes to ground
5. battery post corroded to a point of little or no contact , which happens more
often than not. and jumping with another battery doesn't help. or the battery
dead. A clue : your ammeter starts cliaming as the altenator outputs more
amps to compinsate for the resistance. or fluid low
everything here can be check with a test light and volt/ohm meter.

by the way in post # 10 he stated that the ammeter was working , so what happend why the need of the jumper?

 

[greg_g]

by the way in post # 10 he stated that the ammeter was working , so what happened why the need of the jumper?

One has nothing to do with the other. The problem here seems to be that you just don't understand why the bypass is necessary in the first place. Try this experiment on your own tractor.
1. cold tractor, engine off, keyswitch off. Measure voltage between battery posts
2. start tractor, advance hand throttle to ~1000 rpm to make sure alternator field is excited. Measure voltage between alternator B+ post and ground.
3. tractor still running, measure voltage between battery posts again
4. stop engine

• subtract voltage 1 from voltage 3. That's the net charging voltage getting through the OE wiring to the battery.
• subtract voltage 3 from voltage 2. That's how much net charging voltage is getting LOST through the OE wiring

The bypass wire eliminates this loss

The ammeter on the other hand, does little more than exhibit the charge/discharge state of the battery, expressed in amps rather than in volts. In fact, the engine doesn't even have to be running to get ammeter deflections. Turn the key to ON, watch the ammeter, energize the headlights.

Again, the alternator SUPPLIES power, like the transformer on the pole outside your house. The battery - bats for both teams. It's a supply device when starting the tractor and when supplementing the alternator output. When the alternator is outputting less than it's rating, the battery becomes a consuming device. Anyway - once the tractor is running, the alternator output initially performs double duty. Part goes back to the battery as charging voltage, the rest powers electrical devices up to the alternators rated output; which in your case is 25 amps. As the battery charge state returns to normal, the amount of alternator output used for charging drops to near zero. After that, any electrical requirements over the alternators rating (winch, inverter, aux lighting, etc) is made up for with stored battery power. And that will only be up to ~30 amps, cuz the system fuse will likely blow soon thereafter.

But I digress. Long story short, the bypass wire makes up for the charging voltage that never makes it through the cheap Chinese wiring system.

//greg//

 

[sjb]

There is a ( admittedly small ) risk with your bypass wire. If one of the diodes in the alternator should short ( a common failure mode for silicon diodes) the battery voltage will be across the alternator winding. This will cause a lot of current to flow until something melts and opens the circuit.

Since the battery is capable of providing a lot of current, it would be a good idea to include a fusible link in your bypass wire. If you are going to recommend this modification to others it would be a good idea to at least warn them of the potential problem.

 

[greg_g]

If you are going to recommend this modification to others it would be a good idea to at least warn them of the potential problem.

Not me. The smallest commercially available fusible link that I've ever seen - is 30A all by itself. Plus, they're essentially Slo-Blo by design. Have you considered what would happen to the OE wiring (Y85, no bypass wire) if the alternator shorted to ground? Battery current seeks ground, and will take the easiest path to get there. The alternator is connected to the tractor by 3 wires; switch (14ga), voltage regulator (14ga), ground (22ga). The system fuse is two additional connections past the switch, and the regulator isn't even connected to the system fuse.

That leaves the ground wire, and there's a reason that it's so skinny. In free air, 22ga copper is only 7 amp wire. Odds are pretty good that - in the scenario you present - the little alternator ground wire will open long before common 30A fusible links will. And that should happen with - or without - the 10ga (55 amp) charging voltage bypass wire being installed.

//greg//

 

[lakespirit]

Chris is right, I completely missed the part where stuck in an aftermarket hour meter. Do you realize that the OE hour meter is triggered by the tach? Cuz if the tach don't work, the hour meter don't count. And one of the most common reasons the tach quits is the sending unit. Have you removed your tach sending unit to see if it's damaged? If not, it may simply have needed repositioning to fix both problems.

//greg//

Replaced the sending unit. Tightened it all the way till it hit the flywheel, then back it off just enough so it wasn't hitting. Still doesn't work.

 

[greg_g]

Replaced the sending unit. Tightened it all the way till it hit the flywheel, then back it off just enough so it wasn't hitting. Still doesn't work.

You said you removed the wiring harness, then replaced it. Have you confirmed the sending unit wire(s) is/are actually making it all the way to the tach? It gets there by way of the 9 pin connector behind the cluster panel, I think it's the yellow and/or yellow with green stripe. Might be a good idea to reseat those three cluster connectors while your at it. If it's still no-go, odds are the tach itself is shot. With it out of commission, there's no trigger for the hour meter (which could otherwise be ok).

This may not turn out to be the cause. But voltage and current should be verified as a matter of course, before jumping to a bad starter or solenoid conclusion.

//greg//

 

[blegdleg]

the alternator will have power all the time it dose not go though the ign key only the 30 amp fuse protect it.
the jumper wire you put in will by passed the fuse and now goes directly to the battery , you now have no protection from a shorted alternator and can cause a fire should it fail, you need to remove the wire.
the wiring goes like this:
from the battery to the starter, from the starter to the 30 amp fuse block to the ammeter from the ammeter there are two wire one goes to the alternator and one goes to power the ign switch.

remove the jumper wire put the 30 amp fuse back in turn you key on tell me if you get lights

new replay, can you tell me how to print this pix.

 

[blegdleg]

can you tell me how get a copy of this pix, or how i can print it.