need to vent

[CurlyDave]

I would have preferred soldered connections and heat shrink instead of those blue crimp-on connectors...

I don't think you would have like the outcome with soldered connectors.

A long time (25 years) ago I worked for a company that made all sorts of specialized electrical connectors. what we found was that if we soldered any stranded wire on a vehicle (high vibration) the solder would wick down the strands for some distance and then stop. The end of the area where the solder wicked would cause a stress concentration and the wire would frequently fatigue and break right there. It would take a while, maybe several hundred hours of operation, but it would routinely happen.

Crimped connectors do not have this problem.

 

[N80]

I agree with those that say you should have asked for a price first. That was a pretty major goof up.

But, that does not excuse a dealer from giving you an estimate for the work or calling you to let you know how much it would run. So that's the first inexcusable act by the dealer. Really suspect in my opinion. On top of that, he clearly charged you too much. You were taken advantage off, pure and simple.

Having not asked for an estimate and having paid for the service, there is nothing you can do but enjoy your new lights. But I'd never go back, and I'd never refer anyone to him. If someone asked me about him, I wouldn't bad mouth him, I'd simply tell them your experience. He took advantage of you, got what he wanted in cash, but he should pay with his reputation.

 

[Rockyridge]

From the looks of the wiring you should able to turn the front and rear lights on and off independent of each other. If you can switch the front and rear independently, they must be using black wire as common to ground and using the white wire, which is normally the ground wire, for power to each set of lights. I am not an electrician but it is my understanding that white wire is ground and black or red is hot. Probably not a big deal, and apparently it works, but I would question why they did it that way.

 

[RickB]

I am not an electrician but it is my understanding that white wire is ground and black or red is hot.

Black is routinely used as a ground conductor color in direct current applications. Brown is often used if the machine is built in parts of Europe. Picking nits about insulation color choices is petty, if you ask me.
BTW, White is neutral, not ground, in AC wiring.

 

[blagg]

I ran a 10 guage wire, fused, from battery back to the cupholder remote handle area, mounted a relay and triggered the relay from the OEM light wires at the back of the seat. Mounted lights with premade "L" shaped brackets, drilled 2 holes for the switches, connected wires and mounted one backup light. Reinstalled plastic lever and cupholder housing in about 6 hours total. All wires were ran in loom and tied or clamped. 5 or so hours is not out of line. Dealer could of given you an idea of how much it cost.

 

[jaybrad]

It took me a few hours to do the lights on my tractor a couple weeks ago, but mostly because I'm slow and cautious.

I had a couple of similar brackets made at a machine shop for $5/each (they even painted them for me), the lights, wire, and connectors probably added another $50 - 60. The switch was about $10 at TSC. The fun factor in doing it myself one fine afternoon with a great classic rock station playing on the garage stereo: priceless.

All that said, seeing your installation gave me an idea for a modification I may try on mine.

Good luck talking with your dealer, it will be interesting to hear about their response.

Jay

 

[SnowRidge]

I would have preferred soldered connections and heat shrink instead of those blue crimp-on connectors...

I don't think you would have like the outcome with soldered connectors.

A long time (25 years) ago I worked for a company that made all sorts of specialized electrical connectors. what we found was that if we soldered any stranded wire on a vehicle (high vibration) the solder would wick down the strands for some distance and then stop. The end of the area where the solder wicked would cause a stress concentration and the wire would frequently fatigue and break right there. It would take a while, maybe several hundred hours of operation, but it would routinely happen.

Crimped connectors do not have this problem.

Crimp on connectors have a high failure rate. Crimped and wrapped (wire wrapped tightly around a square pin) connections have to be gas tight or they will fail. Unless high cost specialty tools are used by a knowledgeable person, the connections will not be gas tight, and random failures are pretty much guaranteed. Even professionally crimped or wrapped connections sometimes fail.

25 years ago I held a NASA soldering certification, which required me to attend a NASA certified soldering course. The reason for the certification program in a nutshell: Properly soldered connections don't fail in a high vibration and/or high vacuum environment. Properly soldered connections do not have solder wicking away from the joint.

I used to own a seagoing diesel powered boat. The wiring was trash. The absolute worst environment I know of for wiring is the bilge of a seagoing vessel. Think vibrating salt water spray bath. I replaced all the DC wiring, soldering all the connections. I covered each soldered connection with liquid vinyl, followed by heat shrink tubing. Not a single one of those connections ever failed.

I have a cargo trailer than came with crimp on connectors. They failed early on. I rewired it and added electric brakes while I was at it, using the same techniques as the I used on the boat. Not a single connection has failed since.

I have an equipment trailer that came with crimp on connectors. They failed right away, causing the loss of brakes on one axle. High on my project list is the complete rewiring of that trailer. Every connection will be soldered.

Years of experience have taught me that even properly crimped or wrapped terminals will fail if they are not carrying current most of the time. There is something about the constant movement of electrons between the two surfaces that helps keep the interface from oxidizing. I have talked to a number of people that have observed this effect.

In situations where circuits will be switched off the majority of the time, properly soldered connections are the only absolute protection against interface oxidation.

The only downside to soldering is the extra time it takes. It is usually well worth it.

 

[N80]

I'm not an electrician (electricity is voodoo to me). But I can solder (poorly) and I have wired numerous RC trucks. These work better than anything I've ever found. Vibration, nor even collisions at 20-30mph have ever caused one to come apart. No soldering. They do require a special tool. They aren't cheap.

Here is the website for them. They are also sold (at higher prices) at hobby stores.

Standard Powerpole Family

 

[Travelover]

I'd second the preference for soldering. I used to work in a rental shop and the trailer lights were a nightmare to keep working where the roads are salted in winter. I soldered all the connections, including the ground wire to the frame and that ended the problems, except at the bulb contacts, on occasion.

If I was the OP, I'd be disappointed at the cost, as well. Granted he should have asked for an estimate in advance, but $500 for labor is excessive for a simple job like this.

 

[LRH]

I don't know if i should tell you this but the lights are on the wrong way.
The dealer should know that.
The beam on that kind of light should go right to left not up and down.
If he was going to place them sideways they should be round lights. Why would you want a beam 10 feet up in the air and 4 ft wide, I could be wrong so try it at night. I would mount them on the top of the rops
use the same bracket just put the bracket on the bottom of the top rop, the lights will be the right way and it would look better. Put the bracket on the bottom and the light on each side of the rops wires down.
That is a two/3 hr job .

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I agree with WaxMan about the lamp orientation; if they are floods 20x80, 30x70, etc; you will get a tall, narrow beam, but nothing like a fog lamp turned sideways. If they are a trapezoid pattern, you will also get a strange pattern, but the lenses (or sealed beams) can most likely be turned 180 degrees to get the best pattern. As for price; I guess you should have asked, since some dealers do have customers where time is the most important thing, so the attitude is "fix it, and call me when it is ready"; but a rough estimate would have been nice.
About the only thing that would be complaint worthy might be the electrical work @ a higher hourly rate, most electrical work is higher because more time is spent diagnosing/troubleshooting ect without results, such as digging behind dash panels, behind access panels, underneath the shields/guards etc to repair factory installed wiring/switches/modules, while in some cases referring to factory wiring schematics for help, whereas adding some aftermarket lamps/switches even though it is electrical in nature is not really like chasing down problems in complicated, difficult to get to factory wiring.