Neighbor called the Law on me for shooting

[clemsonfor]

I'm not sure that owning property, a gun, or a Harley with open pipes, gives anyone the right to pollute the space of others. How can that be rationalized? If there is a right to make noise, there must be a balancing right to have quiet IMO.

We have ordinances against loud vehicles, loud music, disturbing the peace and so forth. Obviously, the concept of a reasonable expectation of quiet exists in law. I know of no law that guarantees one the right to make as much noise as they want, any time they want.

Most noise ordnanances are a city thing. They dont exist in the country unless a county has them. But from what i understand most noise ordanances are a city ordanances.

 

[dave1949]

Most noise ordnanances are a city thing. They dont exist in the country unless a county has them. But from what i understand most noise ordanances are a city ordanances.

We have a few state-level noise ordinances. Cities typically have more.

 

[clemsonfor]

Here in SC during hunting season if you own both sides of a road or have permission to hunt both sides of the landowner you CAN SHOOT ACROSS a public road, be it dirt or paved. State Hwy, county road. Seems crazy to me but thats the game laws here.

Recreational shooting its probably illegal still?

 

[dave1949]

Look, it all boils down to this.. LD'1 neighbor did a chitty thing. He called the law, and filed a false police report. He reported LD1 as "shooting across the road". That is against the law in most if not all states. Sure is here in Missouri. LD1 Claims that he was 100 yards from the road and not shooting in that direction even. The neighbor did not like the noise and that is all it amounted too. If any bullets had hit the neighbors property he darn sure would have said that or tried to offer proof of that if he could. He wanted LD1 to be frightened and stop doing it now and in the future. He was trying to impose his will on LD1 and he tried to use law enforcement to do it. If I was the deputy that took the call, I would have have given Mr. Neighbor a stern warning about fileing false reports, If I had believed LD1's side of the story at all, as 300 foot from the road and an obvious backstop of the woodpile with recent bullet holes in it is a long way from "shooting across a highway or road." That is my take on the story at this time.

James K0UA

Filing a false report is a crime. But in the absence of noise ordinances that respect property rights, perhaps Mr. Neighbor was reaching for whatever he could to combat the noise.

I have no idea how much noise LD1 created (he sounds like a noisy critter :laughing, how much should be tolerable and so on, but you aren't seeing the whole picture when you ignore the fact that noise is pollution regardless of what makes it. It's not really a gun issue if the noise created by LD1 is the basis of the complaint.

If it is a gun issue in your mind, then you run the risk of granting non-existent rights to gun noises simply because they came from a gun. In TripleR's example, he respects the right of neighbors to do what all his neighbors do, but that doesn't confer any special rights to anyone. In fact, if individual property rights are not respected, that is akin to socialism.

I think you do have a property right to be largely free of nuisance noise. To me, it's really no different than a neighbor who dumps their trash on your land, lets their animals roam your land, allows their weed killer spray to drift onto your garden, or whatever. Your property is being infringed upon.

I don't know where else logically, other than property rights, a distinction can be made as to where your rights end and a neighbor's begins.

 

[dave1949]

Well they won't be coming anywhere near my property. We live on 300+ acres and have two other farms and not so much as a dirt clod will be sold by my wife or I nor my children, after that as you say it won't affect me. In my area if you don't already own land or are related to someone who does, you will not be moving out here.

My uncle bought a few acres out in the country on a sleepy country road between Winston Salem and Greensboro, neighbors were few and far between and we use to shoot on his small woodlot. Within a few years all the land around him was bought up and flooded with people "moving to the country". When he passed he could barely sneeze outdoors and had lost a lot of his property when the road was widened to handle all the traffic then came sewer and water lines. I made sure this would not happen to us.

It is kind of funny, but I was born on the family farm not five miles from here where my brothers live and due to the increasingly larger farms they have fewer neighbors than 60+ years ago. When the smaller farms were sold the houses were torn down.

Not one clod? :laughing: We used to have dirt clod fights as kids. NW Ohio clay makes great dirt clods.

I too am curious about how population growth will change the landscape. It may well be that some rural areas continue to become more empty. The further consolidation of farm land into large agribusiness tracts may be the future. Who else could afford to buy it?

The fringe areas, where you are are sort of in the country but within commuting distance of a job, will likely continue to be more contentious in terms of land use. Those fringe areas will continue to expand I think.

 

[300UGUY]

I generally have tried to be tolerant. Some folks have made it hard. Tresspassers in hunting season have been a problem. A few years ago, I was getting ready for church on Easter Sunday, and some idiot let loose with a AK or something like it. At least 2 of them, on my neighbor's property. That caused me to do a unchristian thing. I went to the edge of my property and screamed " It's easter sunday!! Fxxxxing easter sunday!!! " The idiots stopped shooting. I think the best gun control would be a IQ test. Really, who the heck thinks it's a good idea to go shooting at 9 am on Easter Sunday? You really have to be very, very stupid. But yet they are allowed to own firearms. And breed.....

 

[300UGUY]

Not one clod? :laughing: We used to have dirt clod fights as kids. NW Ohio clay makes great dirt clods.

I too am curious about how population growth will change the landscape. It may well be that some rural areas continue to become more empty. The further consolidation of farm land into large agribusiness tracts may be the future. Who else could afford to buy it?

The fringe areas, where you are are sort of in the country but within commuting distance of a job, will likely continue to be more contentious in terms of land use. Those fringe areas will continue to expand I think.

The county I am in is a exhurb, a satellite suburb of Detroit. Development here has stalled out, and it seems to have problems restarting, mostly due to the lack of employment here, and the price of gas. Before I retired, my wife and I were commuting 150 miles per day, between the 2 of us. Our monthly gas bill exceeded 1K. That is a pretty good incentive to live closer to your job.

 

[k0ua]

Filing a false report is a crime. But in the absence of noise ordinances that respect property rights, perhaps Mr. Neighbor was reaching for whatever he could to combat the noise.

I have no idea how much noise LD1 created (he sounds like a noisy critter :laughing, how much should be tolerable and so on, but you aren't seeing the whole picture when you ignore the fact that noise is pollution regardless of what makes it. It's not really a gun issue if the noise created by LD1 is the basis of the complaint.

If it is a gun issue in your mind, then you run the risk of granting non-existent rights to gun noises simply because they came from a gun. In TripleR's example, he respects the right of neighbors to do what all his neighbors do, but that doesn't confer any special rights to anyone. In fact, if individual property rights are not respected, that is akin to socialism.

I think you do have a property right to be largely free of nuisance noise. To me, it's really no different than a neighbor who dumps their trash on your land, lets their animals roam your land, allows their weed killer spray to drift onto your garden, or whatever. Your property is being infringed upon.

I don't know where else logically, other than property rights, a distinction can be made as to where your rights end and a neighbor's begins.

Lemme ask you this, as you seem to be sensitive to noise.. How about all the RF (Radio Frequency) Noise that all my neighbors make with their computers, Plasma TV's 2 cycle engines, and dozens of other emitters. I am very sensitive to RF Noise. I would like to have a nice "clean noise-free" spectrum to listen to on my radios, but NOOOO.. I get tons and tons of "garbage" emitted by my neighbors.. Do I call the law on them.? heck no. I put up with it.. YOU seem to think that people have a RIGHT to have a "noise free" environment. I say bull-feathers, no such right is guaranteed in the constitution that I can find. Whose is to say that a neighbors "right" to have a peaceful noise-free environment is any more valid than my right to have a peaceful RF Noise free environment? Of course you will say "well that is not the same thing!" yeah.. who says? It is still about people doing something they enjoy on one side (shooting, or operating a radio) and people not liking that on the other. There are a lot of different ways to look at things.. I just gave you another

James K0UA

 

[dave1949]

Lemme ask you this, as you seem to be sensitive to noise.. How about all the RF (Radio Frequency) Noise that all my neighbors make with their computers, Plasma TV's 2 cycle engines, and dozens of other emitters. I am very sensitive to RF Noise. I would like to have a nice "clean noise-free" spectrum to listen to on my radios, but NOOOO.. I get tons and tons of "garbage" emitted by my neighbors.. Do I call the law on them.? heck no. I put up with it.. YOU seem to think that people have a RIGHT to have a "noise free" environment. I say bull-feathers, no such right is guaranteed in the constitution that I can find. Whose is to say that a neighbors "right" to have a peaceful noise-free environment is any more valid than my right to have a peaceful RF Noise free environment? Of course you will say "well that is not the same thing!" yeah.. who says? It is still about people doing something they enjoy on one side (shooting, or operating a radio) and people not liking that on the other. There are a lot of different ways to look at things.. I just gave you another

James K0UA

Fair question. But let's not re-frame the discussion to "I am sensitive to noise." I am appreciative of natural surroundings which excessive noise renders impossible to obtain or enjoy.

There is medical evidence showing noise can be a health detriment. No one ever got sick from a lack of noise.

Show me the constitutional right to make all the noise you want when it impinges on the pursuit of happiness of others, especially when that is happening on property they own or rent.

There has to be a balance obviously and that is what makes it difficult.

Random RF noise must be difficult to deal with for HAMs, and the available spectrum, like the land area for people, isn't getting any larger. At least you have the regulation of the FCC to enforce stray or too strong signals. Good luck with that. :laughing:

 

[Boondox]

Show me the constitutional right to make all the noise you want when it impinges on the pursuit of happiness of others, especially when that is happening on property they own or rent.

There has to be a balance obviously and that is what makes it difficult.

Loud pipes save lives..? All summer long I have to listen to the echoes of throttle-blipping morons clear across the valley. I like rainy days cuz the Harleys scatter for cover like roaches. But there's really nothing I can do about it aside from ensuring my own bikes are nice and quiet.