Neighbor has elected to damage over 20 trees

[LD1]

The more this thread goes on, the weaker the case is IMO.

Yes I did read. Lets spell out the facts and see if I have them right.

1. There is a 50' ROW and he is operating within that 50'
2. He started this work before you even owned the property.
3. All neighbors are supposed to share in the cost of road improvements.
4. All neighbors are supposed to agree on the road improvements.
5. Only YOU and this neighbor in question live there full time.

So again, as i see it....he started BEFORE you owned property. Might I ask who owned it before???

No other property owners even live there fulltime..So it sounds as if you are the only one he has regular contact with. And clearly after you bought the property, and confronted him....you were well aware of what he was doing.

Have you talked to the other 8 or so property owners??? What is their consensus? Perhaps this guy already talked to them?? Maybe not??

Edit: Based on the previous reply you made while I was typing this one here....its clear you havent talked to the other 8?

And not that it matters....but does he indeed need the road wider? Is he having issues with a truck and trailer and needs it wider??? Because if he does...and this does go to court....I can guarentee they are gonna side with him and having rights over the ROW to access his property...even if all other 8 or 9 members dont want the work done....regardless of any "agreement" you might have.

And to reiterate again....if its in the ROW.....its NOT your trees, and its NOT your dirt. The ONLY luxury you get for that land is to pay taxes on it and "call" it yours. This is no different in a public road at all. IF this were a public road and the local govt you pay taxes to came by and cleared trees, trimmed away from power lines, cleared to run water, dig out a ditch, etc....then there aint a **** thing you could do. Well this "private" road is no different. This private road is owned/shared by 10 people. IT is 10 peoples responsibility to maintain, care for, improve, share in cost this 50' wide section. (just like a public road where all taxpayers share). So be thankful he isnt sending you a bill.

 

[747driver]

So does the guy in question actually need the wider road to get into his property?

NO...there is a 12' wide section of the road concreted that he has used for the last 6 years to enter and exit with no problem. He could have very easily made his entrance wider on his property to enter and exit.

 

[plowhog]

In my opinion your ROW agreement that requires consent of all owners is worthless. You will *never* get 10 people to agree on anything, probably hard to even get a response if they don't live nearby. Seeking consent of all 10 might further complicate things as more opinions get added.

btw, no offense meant, but your "attitude" that he brings city thinking into your rural property area is maybe a problem on your end. Opinions will vary, and his "city" vs your "country" is no better or worse. It's the property and how to best navigate that is the issue.

I'm becoming unclear on what it is you want. First it was to stop work. Then you want his dirt removed. Then have him remove the stumps. Now a rock wall. I do sympathize with your situation-- please don't misunderstand that. But ... can you state EXACTLY what it is that you want to accomplish? Since the ROW exists, you are not going to dominate him since you own the land. So if you can pinpoint exactly what you seek to achieve then it would be helpful.

I have been through a property dispute with a hostile belligerent party. So I know how difficult it can be. I spent over 5 years trying to work it out, then eventually took him to court. That took 4 years, cost me over $100k, and him close to that. I prevailed on every point and we still were the mutual losers. Once you go to court you lose control and the money starts flying out of your wallet. There just might not be a good resolution that is possible.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

OP,

I'll try to help you understand what you keep misunderstanding...

It's.

NOT.

Your.

Property.

That area he's working on? It's not your property.

Your neighbor didn't disturb one single pebble, stick or twig on YOUR PROPERTY.

By all means, get your survey. Get it clearly marked, and go out and put ribbons and bows all along the boundary line where the RIGHT OF WAY stops, and your property STARTS.

Then, if he starts clearing trees, rocks, dirt, whatever PASSED that line, by all means call the sheriff, news crews, NASA, the U.N., Greenpeace, whatever.

Oh, and that area he's clearing? It's not your property.

The ONLY thing your neighbor has done is not seek permission first, to work on the road. That's it. By the way, that is still not YOUR property. Are there ANY penalties SPECIFICALLY spelled out in the covenants for someone that DOES do work on the road, in the Right of Way (by the way that is NOT your property) without getting majority permission from other residents first? If there are no penalties spelled out for doing work on the road (which is NOT your property) without permission, then there is JACK ALL you can do about it.

By the way, the work he's doing?

Yeah, it's not on your property.

And just wait until he sends you and the other 8 "owners" a bill for the work he's done, plus the additional "aggravation fee" from dealing with YOU. Hope he doesn't take you to small claims court if you refuse to pay.

 

[ultrarunner]

In all my years of ownership... family ownership and property management... only once was a lawyer involved and the only one getting a payday was the lawyer.

By coincidence... that most difficult of neighbors has sold out after 37 years... saw a dumpster on the property and another neighbor told me the place is sold and the former owner has to be out in 6 weeks...

Really made my day and week...

Pragmatically speaking... it was taking too much time and turning into one of those situation where winning was still losing...

Cost me 2k in legal fees back in 1988... my only comfort was knowing that the rest of the neighborhood wanted nothing to do with him either... sometimes an odd duck is just that.

There was a time when he was a young family man and cordial... I had even helped him with plumbing problems and such... his wife went off the deep end and was committed to a mental institution and from that time on he was just a miserable individual who would often sit on his front porch in East Oakland cleaning his deer rifle...

Do what you must but don't let this poison the well if you are not going anywhere.

 

[747driver]

The more this thread goes on, the weaker the case is IMO.

Yes I did read. Lets spell out the facts and see if I have them right.

1. There is a 50' ROW and he is operating within that 50'
2. He started this work before you even owned the property.
3. All neighbors are supposed to share in the cost of road improvements.
4. All neighbors are supposed to agree on the road improvements.
5. Only YOU and this neighbor in question live there full time.

So again, as i see it....he started BEFORE you owned property. Might I ask who owned it before???

No other property owners even live there fulltime..So it sounds as if you are the only one he has regular contact with. And clearly after you bought the property, and confronted him....you were well aware of what he was doing.

Have you talked to the other 8 or so property owners??? What is their consensus? Perhaps this guy already talked to them?? Maybe not??

Edit: Based on the previous reply you made while I was typing this one here....its clear you havent talked to the other 8?

And not that it matters....but does he indeed need the road wider? Is he having issues with a truck and trailer and needs it wider??? Because if he does...and this does go to court....I can guarentee they are gonna side with him and having rights over the ROW to access his property...even if all other 8 or 9 members dont want the work done....regardless of any "agreement" you might have.

And to reiterate again....if its in the ROW.....its NOT your trees, and its NOT your dirt. The ONLY luxury you get for that land is to pay taxes on it and "call" it yours. This is no different in a public road at all. IF this were a public road and the local govt you pay taxes to came by and cleared trees, trimmed away from power lines, cleared to run water, dig out a ditch, etc....then there aint a **** thing you could do. Well this "private" road is no different. This private road is owned/shared by 10 people. IT is 10 peoples responsibility to maintain, care for, improve, share in cost this 50' wide section. (just like a public road where all taxpayers share). So be thankful he isnt sending you a bill.

Your correct on all 5 items. The person we bought the property is from out of state. The neighbor has not contacted any other owners asking for what wants to do. He has used this road for 6 years without a problem in terms of exit or entry. We drive our 38' rv on this road with no problem. I know I am more than likely in a losing battle, but all we are asking from him is to contact everyone and lay out a plan for what you want to do.....this is not the only thing he has done with the other owners property and not seek permission.

 

[newbury]

Your correct on all 5 items. The person we bought the property is from out of state. The neighbor has not contacted any other owners asking for what wants to do. He has used this road for 6 years without a problem in terms of exit or entry. We drive our 38' rv on this road with no problem. I know I am more than likely in a losing battle, but all we are asking from him is to contact everyone and lay out a plan for what you want to do.....this is not the only thing he has done with the other owners property and not seek permission.

But in the beginning of this thread you were asking for thousands of dollars for restitution of trees and soil. So now is all you want him to do is

contact everyone and lay out a plan

?

 

[747driver]

OP,

I'll try to help you understand what you keep misunderstanding...

It's.

NOT.

Your.

Property.

That area he's working on? It's not your property.

Your neighbor didn't disturb one single pebble, stick or twig on YOUR PROPERTY.

By all means, get your survey. Get it clearly marked, and go out and put ribbons and bows all along the boundary line where the RIGHT OF WAY stops, and your property STARTS.

Then, if he starts clearing trees, rocks, dirt, whatever PASSED that line, by all means call the sheriff, news crews, NASA, the U.N., Greenpeace, whatever.

Oh, and that area he's clearing? It's not your property.

The ONLY thing your neighbor has done is not seek permission first, to work on the road. That's it. By the way, that is still not YOUR property. Are there ANY penalties SPECIFICALLY spelled out in the covenants for someone that DOES do work on the road, in the Right of Way (by the way that is NOT your property) without getting majority permission from other residents first? If there are no penalties spelled out for doing work on the road (which is NOT your property) without permission, then there is JACK ALL you can do about it.

By the way, the work he's doing?

Yeah, it's not on your property.

And just wait until he sends you and the other 8 "owners" a bill for the work he's done, plus the additional "aggravation fee" from dealing with YOU. Hope he doesn't take you to small claims court if you refuse to pay.

He has not put one penny into that road. We have put 20 tons of stone on it and another owner spent $7,000 for the concrete section that covered up a bad area, which by the way runs right along his entrance.. Didn't ask him for a dime, nor did he offer to pay for a portion. He lives at the bottom of the development so he doesn't care about the rest of the road...only his section.

I get it I don't own my property on the ROW so to speak !! Maybe I should just get a D8 and clear a 50' swath....the Sheriff would be out in minutes!!!

 

[747driver]

But in the beginning of this thread you were asking for thousands of dollars for restitution of trees and soil. So now is all you want him to do is ?

That was before I knew about the ROW....it changed everything. I am very appreciative of all the advice I have received here as I believe it saved me from making a costly mistake !!

 

[goeduck]

Where I live trees are just big weeds and someone clearing them can be improving the property. My 12 foot easement where I live crosses 3 other properties and my easement is limited to travel. There is no ROW so I can not clear or cut down trees on the side of the road. If a tree fell over the road I could cut it and move it off of the road so I could travel on the road but I could not take the wood.

I have another property where other people have an easement over my land. They can travel on it and even paved it with asphalt, making less dust for my rental :thumbsup:

I have another property that extends to one side of the county road on one end and the other side of the county road on the other (back in the 1800s who cared?). The county has the right to maintain ROW but not damage my fence. They did that mowing and let the cows out last year but they fixed it better than it was. So there can be a benefit to ROW. :thumbsup:

As for this thread I would want to read the covenant with the neighbors viewpoint in mind if I were 747driver. What defines agreement of the other property members? Does it say that it has to be in writing? Since his work started before you owned the property, he may have a verbal. Does it allow for a no response? It it legally enforceable? Many of these agreements are loose and may not protect his rights as a land owner with an easement in which case it is not enforceable. Lots of money and hard feelings involved to start a pissing contest over what could be his protected rights as a land owner with a ROW easement.