Neighbor plans to discharge standing water into creek

[buckeyefarmer]

Pictures would help.

 

[citytransplant]

Does the creek show up as a blue line on a USGS map? If so, then it is navigable waters of the US and is a whole nother Ballgame.

No, the creek that traverses my property doesn't show on a USGS map. But the creek that it eventually feeds into, about 1,000 feet later, does. That creek is a well known trout stream.

As I may have mentioned prior, I learned that the area that Fred wants to drain is a federally regulated freshwater (non-tidal) wetland (shows up on the National Wetlands Inventory) hence considered a US body of water. Certain activities would require a permit from US Army Corps of Engineers. However it doesn't appear to be regulated by New York State Dept. of Environmental Conservation per their digital mapping system. To be protected under the NYS Freshwater Wetlands Act, a wetland must be 12.4 acres (5 hectares) or larger.

I will try to get some pictures up.

 

[TheMan419]

No, the creek that traverses my property doesn't show on a USGS map. But the creek that it eventually feeds into, about 1,000 feet later, does. That creek is a well known trout stream.

As I may have mentioned prior, I learned that the area that Fred wants to drain is a federally regulated freshwater (non-tidal) wetland (shows up on the National Wetlands Inventory) hence considered a US body of water. Certain activities would require a permit from US Army Corps of Engineers. However it doesn't appear to be regulated by New York State Dept. of Environmental Conservation per their digital mapping system. To be protected under the NYS Freshwater Wetlands Act, a wetland must be 12.4 acres (5 hectares) or larger.

I will try to get some pictures up.

If it is a wetland you would be doing Fred a favor by telling him this in advance of his digging. Local golf course did some work on the course. Neighbor across the lake noticed it and called the COE. Yep the golf course altered about 1 acre of wetlands. Had to restore it, pay some fines and so forth. Not a cheap mistake at all.

Usually if you want to drain, or otherwise make a wetland no longer a wetland, you have to "give back" more than 2x the area you want to drain and create a new wetland to make up for the stuff you are draining.

But again the advice to talk to the neighbors first stands.

 

[orezok]

Before retiring I was a facilities manager for a school district. On one of our high schools we upgraded the storm drain system. The new pipe dumped into the Coachella Valley Storm Water Channel. Normally, this channel is dry 360+ days a year and sometimes several years at a time. Our upstream neighbor is a housing development and due to over irrigation of their landscape, there is a small amount of water released into the channel almost constantly. This nuisance water results in a small area of about an acre that weeds grow.

When we went to install the new SD outlet, we disturbed some of the weeds. Here comes the Corps of Engineers and Fish and Game to tell us we disturbed a "wetlands" area and we got a stop notice.

Well it took us almost a year to get all the permits needed to "disturb" this wetland and we had to post a fee to cover pulling other invasive weeds on a 1 acre area about 50 miles from here for the next couple of years. Blackmail?

What is really crazy is that Coachella Valley Water District which own the channel has a blanket permit to clear the channel of all growth annually. They took out the "wetlands" shortly after we completed our work!

 

[Larry Caldwell]

With respect to flooding on your property, ignore what is upstream and concentrate on downstream. Obstructed drainage is what causes flooding on your property.

 

[citytransplant]

I caught Bob yesterday as he was raking leaves and asked him if Fred ever spoke to him about a plan to drain standing water from his (Fred's) land across Bob's land and into the creek that traverses my property. Bob said Fred approached him months ago and ran the idea by him. At that time Bob never committed either way to allowing excavation on his property. In a nutshell, I told Bob that the heavy equipment operator may someday ask for permission to work on his land and that I wouldn't be happy about any plan to divert water into a creek that already overflows its banks (onto my primary horse pasture and 50 feet from my septic drain field) during heavy rainfall. I also alerted Bob to the fact that the area in question, both his property and Fred's, is deemed wetland by US Fish & Wildlife and can be readily identified on the Wetlands Inventory map. Bob was surprised to learn of the wetland designation. He got the message. I will also talk to Fred when I see him.

The attached map is taken directly from US Fish & Wildlife Wetland Inventory. The wetland areas are shaded green. The creek, which I drew, is blue and the area that Fred hopes to drain is encircled in orange (stripes).

Bob's wife had the best solution. She said Fred needs a pair of taller rain boots.

 

[ustmd]

I caught Bob yesterday as he was raking leaves and asked him if Fred ever spoke to him about a plan to drain standing water from his (Fred's) land across Bob's land and into the creek that traverses my property. Bob said Fred approached him months ago and ran the idea by him. At that time Bob never committed either way to allowing excavation on his property. In a nutshell, I told Bob that the heavy equipment operator may someday ask for permission to work on his land and that I wouldn't be happy about any plan to divert water into a creek that already overflows its banks (onto my primary horse pasture and 50 feet from my septic drain field) during heavy rainfall. I also alerted Bob to the fact that the area in question, both his property and Fred's, is deemed wetland by US Fish & Wildlife and can be readily identified on the Wetlands Inventory map. Bob was surprised to learn of the wetland designation. He got the message. I will also talk to Fred when I see him.

The attached map is taken directly from US Fish & Wildlife Wetland Inventory. The wetland areas are shaded green. The creek, which I drew, is blue and the area that Fred hopes to drain is encircled in orange (stripes).

Bob's wife had the best solution. She said Fred needs a pair taller rain boots.

Fred is screwed

 

[newbury]

As a former Wetland Scientist for the Army Corps of Engineers my understanding of the present situation of wetland protection is that it is in a state of flux.

Fred may well get permission to drain his swamp if Bob lets him ditch Bob's property. After all many members on here have been deriding EPA/Corps of Engineers interference in manipulation of wetlands on their property. I watched for 30 years as it went back and forth from "everything needs a permit" to "virtually nothing needs a permit" depending on the administration. I think this administration is leaning to "drain the swamp".

Scott Pruitt, head of the EPA has had difficulty with EPA regulations

Pruitt, as Oklahoma attorney general, had sued EPA over the regulation, saying it ç*¥surps state authority, ç*¥nlawfully broadens the definition of waters of the United States and imposes 渡umerous and costly obligations on landowners.

source

Since his acreage is small he may well get away with it. And once it's been drained I doubt they would make him restore it as it was.

 

[MossRoad]

I caught Bob yesterday as he was raking leaves and asked him if Fred ever spoke to him about a plan to drain standing water from his (Fred's) land across Bob's land and into the creek that traverses my property. Bob said Fred approached him months ago and ran the idea by him. At that time Bob never committed either way to allowing excavation on his property. In a nutshell, I told Bob that the heavy equipment operator may someday ask for permission to work on his land and that I wouldn't be happy about any plan to divert water into a creek that already overflows its banks (onto my primary horse pasture and 50 feet from my septic drain field) during heavy rainfall. I also alerted Bob to the fact that the area in question, both his property and Fred's, is deemed wetland by US Fish & Wildlife and can be readily identified on the Wetlands Inventory map. Bob was surprised to learn of the wetland designation. He got the message. I will also talk to Fred when I see him.

The attached map is taken directly from US Fish & Wildlife Wetland Inventory. The wetland areas are shaded green. The creek, which I drew, is blue and the area that Fred hopes to drain is encircled in orange (stripes).

Bob's wife had the best solution. She said Fred needs a pair taller rain boots.

Do you have a topographical map of the area? That would be interesting to see.

 

[citytransplant]

I think this administration is leaning to "drain the swamp".

Cute

Earlier I indicated that 400' separate these two points and that "Fred's land is *certainly* upland from mine, the elevation difference is just a few feet"

Attached is a topo map, edited to show pertinent landmarks. Both Fred's "wet spot" (see small red circle on map) and the point where the creek comes closest to the wet spot fall within the same 2 contour lines (940' - 960'). BTW, these point are just over 200' apart, not 400'. Also, I am not certain that Fred's wetland is upland from mine. The wet area could easily be on same plane if not slightly lower than the creek.