Neighbor use of my land Question

JohnMiller3 · Jun 18, 2003

..."JUST TRY THE TRUTH". YOU DO NOT LIKE THE PUMP HOUSE... 

I agree...

Give the man the benefit of the doubt and talk man to man about it...

Besides, it is your property, you're doing him a favor, you're in the driver's seat... and you have nothing to lose by being straight forward & nice about it...

(and if he doesn't like it... what's he gonna do... remove his pumphouse and pump...?/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

rancar · Jun 18, 2003

That sounds like awful advice. 

Well, SnowRidge...please note how I said this. I suggested first, talk to the neighbor. Then, if he refuses to remove the pump house, then consult with an attorney. I suggested the last and radical recourse of removing the pump house oneself as the last recourse, not the first. I'm all for resolving these types of land use dispute issues peacefully and diplomatically. No, I'm not pumping my chest here.....but, who's to say a property owner can't remove something placed on his property by someone else, especially when it was placed there without the permission of the property owner. I'm not an attorney but somehow it just doesn't seem right that I can't physically remove a pump house that belongs to another from my property when I didn't give permission initially for the placement of that pump house.

...Bob

Anonymous Poster · Jun 18, 2003

( I'm not an attorney but somehow it just doesn't seem right that I can't physically remove a pump house that belongs to another from my property when I didn't give permission initially for the placement of that pump house. )

A lot of the stuff in the law seems to defy common sense; at least it seems that way to me. When I started researching our little problem here, I found that any direct action by me (similar to what you are saying above) would have been illegal, and effectively would have put the other party in the driver's seat.

As I read your post, it advocated summary removal if PhilNH5 didn't want to pay legal fees. He already stated that he did not, so I read it as your advising him to go ahead and rip it out.

Please keep in mind that we do not know very many details on this situation. We don't know how long the fellow has had permission to get his water there. We don't know for certain if there ever was a recorded agreement between him and the seller. We don't know if there was a survey, although it should have caught the pump if it was done. Most of all, we don't know what the law is there, and how it applies to this situation.

I stand by what I said; it's lousy advice. Advising him to talk to an attorney or talk to the other guy is fine, but advising him to destroy property without knowing the legal consequences is not good advice in my opinion.

SnowRidge

Golfgar4 · Jun 18, 2003

( The abutter asked me if we could continue this arrangement. I said sure. )

I've not had any experience with a situation like this, although it could happen after I move out into the country. But it seems to me that when he asked you if the arrangement could be continued, to which you agreed, that permission was granted on the basis of the arrangement at the time of the request . There wasn't any kind of structure in place at that time, was there?

After consulting with an attorney first, I think the prudent thing to do would be to approach the individual in a civil manner and explain that there was obviously a misunderstanding. Explain that your approval of the continued arrangement applied to the conditions that were present at the time the approval was given, and if he had mentioned his plans to erect a building, you would've said no.

If he gets angry or upset about it, that's when you calmly mention what the attorney told you you should do.

It seems to me that it's worth it to try to avoid confrontation, if at all possible. After all, you're going to have live near this person for awhile! But if being decent about doesn't work, protect your rights!

hillslider · Jun 18, 2003

YES MR GARY IN INDIANA I WAS WELL AWARE OF MY USE OF CAPS!!!!! I FEEL VERY STRONG ABOUT WHAT I SAID.......IT IS OF SOME PEOPLES OPPINIONS THAT GET THE LAW INVOLVED FIXES EVERYTHING. I BELIEVE IT IS THERE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM AND CAN NOT. IT IS THIS ATTITUDE THAT HAS TRANSFORMED THE GOV. INTO THE MESS IT IS TODAY.
Just my oppinion......I said that quietly! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cowboydoc · Jun 18, 2003

I can tell you that this can lead to permanent water rights. This happened to us on a ranch we own. We built a 200 acre reservoir at one of the upper ranches. We did this to be able to irrigate ground. To make a long story short we let one of the neighbors have some of the overflow water for some pastures and hay. This went on for about 15 years. At this time we get into a drought situation. The reservoir is very low and there isn't much overflow, actually none. Well Brimley takes us to court and sues us over water rights to the reservoir. Seems that there is a law in the water rights that allowed him to continue to take that water even though he had never paid for it or anything. His lawyer actually tryed to get the water over our rights to it!!! After a five year battle and I don't know how much money he was awarded permanent overflow water rights but not water rights when the water was low if there was no overflow. Now every year we have to file a report to the courts saying how much water there is. If he disputes it we have to pay to have an independent inspector come up and check the water. Pretty crazy huh. To top it all off this is permanent water rights. He can sell it with his property!!!!

mdbarb · Jun 18, 2003

See my thread"Help! I need legal advice re: easements" to see the horrors of wha can happen.
My advice - go see a lawyer today and learn exactly what your rights are and the proper way to implement them. Then go talk with this person on a friendly - we can work this out so everyone wins attitude - keeping in mind what you learned from the lawyer - get everything - I mean everything! down in writing -consider hat isn't written down goes against you.

3 words: communicatio, communication and communication.
Good luck!

PhilNH5 · Jun 18, 2003

Folks,
Thanks for all the replies. As usual there is some good stuff. Some facts were overlooked. These are camps on a recreational pond. See attahed pic. I own 5 lots of record on this pond. I do not own the pond. The camps are only 3 season use. We go up a lot in the summer. The abutter does not have water frontage. He uses a shallow well pump loacted on my property with black plastic (butyl?) pipe which is strung across my property.
That allsaid I do appreciate the advice and comments. As I mentioned I don't know what I will say when I see him. My biggest fear is the lost of some of my property rights if I let things go. I really had not given it much thought until I saw the newly constructed pumphouse and I must admit the sight of it ticked me off.

I had thought of charging rent.This way everything would be spelled out. But w/o a lawyer I don't know what that will entail.
I liked the comment on the agreement standing on the time it was made ie . no pumphouse. But Richards comments have me worried. If I don't do anything will the right to run the butyl pipe become legally his? We would like to build a real house and retire there. I won't want pipes lying on the ground then.
And I won't dismantle the pumphouse. I had a freind in Delaware who dug up a paved driveway that a neighbor knowingly placed on his property. Yup he was held liable for the destruction of the neighbors private property.

So I guess I will call the VT attorney I used at closing last year and see what he says. Of course that will likely mean money from my pocket. But at least I can console my self that I don't have 1/1000th of the property troubles Richard has posted /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Again thanks for the replies.
Phil

Gary_in_Indiana · Jun 19, 2003

I will call the VT attorney I used at closing last year and see what he says. Of course that will likely mean money from my pocket 

Well, I think whatever he charges is a fair amount to charge for your first year's lease if you decide to go that route. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · Jun 19, 2003

I thnk you can probably have lawyer draw up a simple agreement for a nominal fee. I suppose you could ask the neighbor to pay the fee or maybe you can tell the neighbor ahead of time that you would like to split the cost with him.

My main thought is to make sure you don't win the battle but lose the war...a ticked off neighbor who calls about, every noise violation, open fire, fence line, garbage pile, building without permit etc., etc.

I had a slight situation wiith a neighbor that was improved though not fully solved. I could have forced the issue but I got most of what I wanted and now he isn't likely to retaliate as I suggested above.

It's no fun having to live by every code, ordinance and law because your neighbor wants pay back. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Hope it works out smoothly.