Neighbor use of my land Question

Gary_in_Indiana · Jun 19, 2003

YES MR GARY IN INDIANA I WAS WELL AWARE OF MY USE OF CAPS!!!!! 

I never indicated that you weren't.

 I FEEL VERY STRONG ABOUT WHAT I SAID 

However strongly you might feel about something, typing everything in all caps is still difficult for most people to read.

 IT IS OF SOME PEOPLES OPPINIONS THAT GET THE LAW INVOLVED FIXES EVERYTHING 

I'll assume you mean something like "It is the opinion of some that getting the law involved fixes everything." If that is, in fact, what you meant, I would tend to agree with you.

 I BELIEVE IT IS THERE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM AND CAN NOT. 

I'll assume you mean that you believe the courts should be a last resort after all other efforts to resolve a dispute have failed. Again, if that's what you meant to communicate, I would tend to agree with you again.

 IT IS THIS ATTITUDE THAT HAS TRANSFORMED THE GOV. INTO THE MESS IT IS TODAY. 

Despite the fact that the way you put this paragraph together would indicate you mean the attitude of trying to resolve matters outside the courts has hurt our government, I'll assume you mean otherwise. I'll assume you mean the attitude of immediately going to court rather than trying to resolve disputes between or among the involved parties has hurt our government. If that is, in fact, what you meant to attempt to convey, then, while I'm not covinced that the attitude to which you refer has hurt our government so much as it has hurt society as a whole, it would certainly appear that you are agreeing with me in what I posted here suggesting an attempt to work something out with the offending neighbor.

Thank you for your VERY STRONG agreement and support of my opinion and earlier post here. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

heehaw · Jun 19, 2003

20 years ago i bought a piece of property that had a situation like this....i talked to the folks that had permission to put the pump in the spring, wanted them to hook onto rural water system when it became available..they said they weren't interested....went to an attorney, he said i can "probably" get them off the spring, for $$$$$$$$$ in legal fees..i sold the property...
if you can terminate it without legal fees, you will be lucky..
heehaw

Anonymous Poster · Jun 19, 2003

( I will call the VT attorney I used at closing last year and see what he says. Of course that will likely mean money from my pocket 

Well, I think whatever he charges is a fair amount to charge for your first year's lease if you decide to go that route. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

That would certainly be fair. There's no reason you whould be out of pocket for doing a favor for someone else.

The trouble with on-line legal advice is that it is worth about what you paid for it. Land law, in particular, varies tremendously from place to place. Only local advice really counts.

Chief · Jun 19, 2003

PhilNH5, got another idea and it is pretty low cost. Depending on how big the pond is; I would drain the pond an tell the guy that you are conducting maintenance do to silt etc. and ask him to remove the pump and pipe. Then just leave the pond drain for a good while until he finds water else where. It is YOUR property and you have the right to maintain it. If he won't go away, tell him you have decided to make the pond a sewage holding lagoon for the hog farm you are planning to start. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I think he will take the hint. This is called 'skunk tactics" . /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

wasabi · Jun 19, 2003

Phil,

Legal questions sure get the hair up some people's necks, eh? I've got no legal insights to add, but would opine that situations like this can depend a lot on the neighbor. (If posts here are indicative of personality types, there are a bunch of TBN folks I'd be very pleased to call neighbors and others I'd just as soon not live anywhere near.)

If you find out his water rights, however obtained, are likely to survive, you face what I call a "No choice, No problem" situation. If so, in the spirit of TBN, turn this situation into a fun weekend tractor project. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Run a shallow trench from the lake to his land and bury the black pipe, perhaps in exchange for your neighbor putting the pump house on his land (as someone else suggested). Wouldn't take all that long, you would not have to look at the pipe or pump house anymore, and you might end up making a friend in the process. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Hope this situation works out to your satisfaction.

Sabi

sendero · Jun 19, 2003

Well - I hope this resolves easily, and I'm sure you will let us know what happens.

I guess it proves the old aphorism "no good deed goes unpunished" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cacinok · Jun 19, 2003

I would have the lawyer draw up a contract to lease the abutter rights to cross and have his pump on your land. I would also have the lawyer state in the contract that you are only contracting w/ that specific person, that the contract is non transferable and the lease will not run with the abutter's land. That way, when he decides to sell or dies the right to cross your land will terminate. I would also include that immediately upon the sell of the abutter's land or his death the pipe, pump and pump house will be removed.

Adverse possession usually will not occur if you grant permission. Water rights, however, as Cowboydoc testified, are a whole other ball game.

Clint.

rancar · Jun 20, 2003

"...I would also include that immediately upon the sell of the abutter's land or his death the pipe, pump and pump house will be removed..." 

Then, what you're suggesting is Phil has no recourse but to accept the pump house being on his land until the abutter's death, in spite of the fact Phil doesn't like the pump house being there and he never agreed to it being there. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Well, I've followed this thread with much curiosity and I was chastised with offering lousy advice when I suggested Phil just remove that pump house himself as a final recourse. I've had to face these issues myself somewhat, not with pump houses, but with old town rights-of-way and hunter tree stands being on property we bought three years ago. I've had to take aggressive stands on these issues, evicting hunters off the property and removing their tree stands myself when they refused to remove it. Right or wrong and whether I did it within my legal rights, I don't know. But, I did it. Somehow, I just can't understand how a property owner has to tolerate the intrusion of a neighbor who starts to build structures on his property without permission and the property owner has no legal recourse. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Boy, oh boy, this is some really screwed up U.S legal system if this is the case.

...Bob

Anonymous Poster · Jun 20, 2003

( Somehow, I just can't understand how a property owner has to tolerate the intrusion of a neighbor who starts to build structures on his property without permission and the property owner has no legal recourse. Boy, oh boy, this is some really screwed up U.S legal system if this is the case. )

I don't think that's the case here, rancar. The neighbor had permission to pump water from the pond. He then put up the pump house that caused offense. That is not the same thing as simply moving onto someone else's property without permission and erecting a structure, which is what I assume happened with the tree stands.

Nobody has said that the pump house has to stay there (at least I don't think anyone has), but what I and some others have said is get legal advice before you do anything else. If the other fellow had waltzed onto the place without permission and summarily installed a pump and pump house, I doubt seriously that there would be any problem with bulldozing it and hauling it to the dump.

That's not what a happened though. He had permission for a pump. A reasonable question is: Did that give him the legal right to erect a structure to house the pump?

That sort of question needs to be answered by a legal expert. From my own experience I can state with certainty that once someone is granted permission to use real estate they become a tenant, and when that permission expires, is revoked, or terminates for cause, certain procedures must be followed to satisfy the legal system, and to quote from a legal document I came across in my own research, "Self service evictions are abhorred by the court."

All it took in our situation was to write a demand letter. We had tried the nice approach; it didn't work.

Sorry if my initial response to your post was a little strong. I just saw real potential for PhilNH5 to get into serious trouble.

SnowRidge

kevincook · Jun 20, 2003

If it was my property I would tell the neighbor that the current setup is can only be temporary and that he will need to find another solution.

Why doesn't the neighbor just drill a well? If I was the neighbor that is what I would do. I don't see a need for the neighbor to intrude on someone else's property. If these properties were for sale and he really wanted to continue the setup he should have purchased the land when it was on the market.

JMHO.