Comparison New 1023E vs 1025R decision

[Garycw]

Looking at buying first scut w/ 60 " 7 iron deck and H120 loader. I can see the differences with the suspension seat, lights, cruise, tilt wheel, 12vdc plug, floor mat and position control 3 pt hitch. and 2-3 hp.
Other than the position control 3 pt vs the basic 3 pt, and 2-3 hp, the rest seems like fluff. I'm having a hard time justifying extra $1800.
I'd look at a used 1 series or a 2 series but they're priced like almost like new and with the 60 mo 0% financing right now makes buying new a better deal.
I have other 3 pt equipment I use with a cpl older fords 841 and 851. Also a Chinese 4x4 farm pro 2025 CUT. ( no loaders)
I was looking at the new X700 machines, but you get a lot more with 1 series for about same money. The farm is about 30 AC, but only mow about 3 AC.

 

[TripleR]

We had to replace our 2305 and struggled a bit with the same decision, but we're glad we got the 1025R. Our only complaint so fa is unlike our 2305 or BXs, we can't mow in reverse.

 

[s219]

If it helps any, the seat on the 1023E is horrible. You will notice that over the long haul. It's the same or worse than what I have on my Deere LT mower bought in 2002. They clearly cheaped out on that to hit a price point.

If you plan to use the 3-pt a lot, position control may be a huge benefit. I say may, because I have position control now, but didn't on my last tractor, and there are only some cases where it's better.

If you're not wed to Deere, also check out the Kubota B2301/B2601. Back when I was shopping in that size range, they overlapped the Deere 1-series on price despite being slightly more substantial tractors, with a little nicer construction and little touches like having metal hood/fenders and putting the fuel gauge in the dash. The tank mounted fuel gauge is another thing Deere cheaped out on on both 1-series models.

 

[RalphVa]

I second the motion regarding looking at a Kubota B2301. I had a very lemony 1025R and replaced it with a 2025R. On the way to doing this, I looked at the Kubota B2301. It beats the JD about 19 to 11. Locally, the B2301 is about $2,000 or more less than the 2025R, maybe putting it into the 1025R range.

Attached is the comparison. It's off a bit. The 2025R does have a cup holder or claims to have one. It's really not workable but there as a "cup holder".

I may not have rated the driveover mowing deck of the B2301. It has one, as does the 1025R. You may be interested in this. I wasn't.

Oh, I had a 4010, which is like today's (if they offered it) 2019E. Position control on the 3ph was quite a step up when I got the "R". Also, the "R" models (and the B sales person claims it) have modulated start of the PTO. What finished off my 4010 after 9 years was failure of the driveline donut due to the abrupt PTO startups on it (and on the "E" model).

Ralph

 

[Garycw]

Thanks Ralph. I checked the b2301 and was around $5k more than 1023E. The comparison chart was a little hard to understand and didn't seem accurate as of today. I've also have a problem finding a kabota dealer near 40744 zip.

 

[Garycw]

Ps.. The only things about the upgrade to the 1025R is the cpl xtra hp and position control on 3 pt. I've about decided they're not that big of issue for me. The rest of the plastic trim, bells & whistles on the 1025r doesn't mean much for work. I'm down to whether or not i want the auto connect deck or not. The salesman Demo'd it and looked pretty simple, or at least that time. I've heard there's been some back in for service. And others that have went back to manual pto connect

 

[TripleR]

The seat on the 1025R is much more comfortable than the 1023, after tolerating the poor seat on our 2305, it was money well spent.

 

[RalphVa]

Seat on the 1025R is good. Better than the one on the 2025R.

I greatly hated the 1,650 rpm idle on the 1025R, and the engine is very rough. I got the idle down to 1,400, but it's very difficult to adjust, not so easy as it was on my 4010. Idle speed on the 2025R is 1,300 and smooth.

Somehow, Kubotas can cut their idle speed still to 1,000 rpm and meet emissions. JD ran their idle speeds up to pass emissions.

One reason I didn't go with Kubota is the dealer is around 30 miles away vs. only about 6 for the JD dealer, and they've treated me very well over these last 11 years. The sales person moved the toolbox from my 1025R to the 2025R. He also changed out the collar type PTO end for a push button one. Helps to stick with them sometimes.

Ralph

 

[Garycw]

Finally got to the dealer that has the tractor selected. I got the auto connect 60" deck and H120 loader on the 1023. Dealer was closed so I walked back to see it anyway. There was no loader or brackets and no deck attached. They had the one Lonely 1023 in a sea of about 20 1025R's. Some with loaders, some with loaders & backhoes. The little 1023 looked like an orphan. I may do some gardening with it besides the main use of mowing and front loader. So I'm now thinking of biting the bullit and upgrading to the 1025. My question is do you guys think the R4 industrial tires would be too hard on the yard? I'd hate to give up the traction by going to turf tires.

 

[williaty]

I just went through this in early spring and have 50 hours on my new 1023e. I think I can hit most of your questions here.

1) Go with the JD, not the KB. The one and only reason for this is that JD is really way out and ahead on the whole "quick-attach" idea for the loader, the front end quick hitch, and the mowing deck. In my mind, this is about the only thing that really differentiates the SCUTs from JD, KB, MF, Mahindra, etc. They super, super similar in capabilities but the JD really just makes it easier to change attachments and that's a BIG deal with a SCUT.

2) The R4s leave it up to you whether or not you're going to tear up your lawn. What I mean is that it's possible to drive around and do no damage but you can make a couple of mistakes and really rip things up. The trouble you can get into is turning. If you make a really tight turn at speed in 2WD or a moderate turn at any speed in 4WD, it's possible to skid the tires enough on the front to leave tracks. Avoid doing this and you won't hurt the lawn.

3) You absolutely can mow in reverse in the 1-series JDs. The way they want you to do it is to pull up on the PTO knob while you first touch the reverse pedal in order to back up with the MMM running, but that's BS. It takes about 10 minutes to pop the PTO switch out of the dash, pull the two wires for the "2nd stage" out of the connector, and short them together. You'll never have to pull up on the PTO to go backwards again.

4) Your JD dealer will probably not set the MMM up properly. I have no idea why they all suck at it but they do. A different tractor forum has extensive instructions on how to set a deck up properly for maximum range of cutting height adjustment, proper leveling, and ease of auto-connecting.

5) The 1023e stock seat sucks. However, for WAY less than the price difference between the 23e and the 25R, you can buy a Michigan V-5300 seat and bolt it right on. If you search google using my username and the search string "1023e Michigan V-5300", you'll find pictures and part numbers for how to do it yourself. The Michigan V-5300 seat is the seat John Deere ships on their Signature Edition tractors.

6) I sometimes think it'd be nice to have the tilt steering, but no way does it justify the money for a 25R.

7) I sometimes think it'd be nice to have the Position Control on the 3PH, but (because I don't do a lot of ground-engaging work like plowing or cultivating) no way does it justify the extra money for a 25R


Save the money, get the 1023e, then spend the savings on extras to make the tractor more useful.

 

[Garycw]

Thanks Williaty, everything you said makes a lot of sense to me. And the pto switch will be diffinetly be getting the mod. How will I know which two wires are the reverse switch? I need to do a lot of backing while mowing here at the farm and have done this to a cub I presently mow with.
Unfortunately I think I've caught the dreaded "Green Fever". If I can get them to upgrade for around $1300 I may jump to the 1025 and call it a day. For about a week now I've racked my brain to get the most for less. Started with X700 series then to 1 series. Spread sheets from 3 different dealers etc. amazingly I found one dealer about $1200 less, on same equipment.

 

[TripleR]

A quick search will show you how to do the modification, I found a couple but I'm sure there are others: http://www.****************.com/for...12-john-deere-1-series-scuts-1026r-1023e.html

Disabling the RIO on a 1025r

"I have a new 1025r and the RIO safety feature that is factory installed is a very annoying item. It is designed to stop the mower if you put the tractor in reverse. Then you have to push in and then pull out the pto knob to start the mower again. This has some lawyers name wrote all over it. I frequently have to go in reverse when mowing and I refuse to put up with this. Reading on this forum I came by a reader who found a very simple way to disconnect the RIO . Following his instructions was easy. You remove the right side panel and pull the connector for the pto knob off. There is a yellow and red wire side by side and a orange and red wire side by side. The orange and red control the RIO . I cut the orange and red wires, removed some insulation, then twisted the two wires together followed by soldering them together. I then put a piece of heat shrink wrap over the connection and melted it. It will fit back in the plastic conduit and I taped it together just as the factory did. Replace the connector to the pto knob. Reinstall the side panel and you are finished. It took me maybe 10 minutes. Tested it and no more cutting off in reverse. Please remember if you do this, then John Deere is not responsible for any safety problems that may arise. I always look before backing."

We use a box scraper, tiller and blade, so really like position control as it's so much better than the quarter inching on our Kubota BX2660. Several people use the JD, so the seat and adjustable steering is really nice, wish our Kubota had it.

We use R4s on our JD1025R, did on our 2305 and do on our BX and like them overall.

Enjoy your new machine whichever way you go.

 

[RalphVa]

The 2025R has it, too. It would be especially annoying when using a front end snow blower.

Ralph

 

[williaty]

Thanks Williaty, everything you said makes a lot of sense to me. And the pto switch will be diffinetly be getting the mod. How will I know which two wires are the reverse switch? I need to do a lot of backing while mowing here at the farm and have done this to a cub I presently mow with.
Unfortunately I think I've caught the dreaded "Green Fever". If I can get them to upgrade for around $1300 I may jump to the 1025 and call it a day. For about a week now I've racked my brain to get the most for less. Started with X700 series then to 1 series. Spread sheets from 3 different dealers etc. amazingly I found one dealer about $1200 less, on same equipment.

There's another forum for Talking about Green Tractors (re-arrange those words and you'll find it but you can't link to it directly from here) that has instructions about how to do it including wire colors and including me talking about the way that I did it.

 

[TripleR]

There's another forum for Talking about Green Tractors (re-arrange those words and you'll find it but you can't link to it directly from here) that has instructions about how to do it including wire colors and including me talking about the way that I did it.

That is where I got the link I posted, good information.

 

[Garycw]

Thanks for the info. Saves time from metering wires out.
I was quoted 1025 upgrade between $1800 from one dealer to $2000 from another. I showed them another dealers upgrade price of $1300. After much silence and number crunching, head shaking etc, they came up with $1425. I split the difference at $1372.50 and they took it. This the same dealer that quoted $2000. So the new 1025R, H120 and 60D auto connect is on the way
I didn't want to regret not upgrading later after already spending more for a mower than anyone should have too. Out the door a little over $17K.. Yikes!!

 

[TripleR]

Congratulations, I look at these things as long term purchases and have learned to consider not only what I need now, but what I may need in the future so a few bucks spread out over the life of these things really isn't much.

 

[Garycw]

Congratulations, I look at these things as long term purchases and have learned to consider not only what I need now, but what I may need in the future so a few bucks spread out over the life of these things really isn't much.

That's the way I'm trying to look at it. They seem to hold there value better than the full size tractors too ?
You can't really negotiate the wildly over priced parts you may need in the future,so might as well try to get your savings if any up front at purchase. I was able to save a little over a thousand $ from their original price

 

[TripleR]

That's the way I'm trying to look at it. They seem to hold there value better than the full size tractors too ?
You can't really negotiate the wildly over priced parts you may need in the future,so might as well try to get your savings if any up front at purchase. I was able to save a little over a thousand $ from their original price

Yeah, parts on all makes and models seem outrageously priced. A fuel tank fell on our 2008 JD 2305 and a new 1025R cost only 4k more than repairs, so we jumped on it.

The good news is barring accidents etc., very few parts will be needed. Our other tractors have been pretty trouble fee for many years.

 

[Garycw]

Ok. Dumb question. How do you get right side panel off? I removed top bolt, which was already loose & ready to fall out. Are there bolts on bottom and rear? Hate to break a plastic panel on a machine less than a day old. Already had the seat hinder bolt fall out on one side for test mow. The washer and pin was gone.