New "B" series catalog..

   / New "B" series catalog.. #111  
rickster said:
When I was shopping for my tractor I looked at the kioti ck20 with position control. I wasn't impressed with the CRACKING LOADER PROBLEMS and the cheezy fix job kioti came up with!:rolleyes: I decided on a B7800 with 1/4 inching and plenty of Kubota dealers in the area!!:D

I have it from 'good authority' that you can grade better with a cracked Kioti front end loader than you can with a 'value added' Kubota 1/4 inching valve. Ha! :rolleyes: :D ;)

Don
 
   / New "B" series catalog.. #112  
All of the talk about 1/4 inching valves and position control is interesting. Position control is nice, don't get me wrong. However, here in the southwest, skip loaders or grading tractors are very common. They look like a fullsize backhoe loader, minus the backhoe, add a three point hitch, and attach a large HD boxblade. This is what they use to grade driveways, house pads, parking lots etc. They don't use position control. The Cat 414E has a joystick for up/down, tilt and pitch. Its pretty slick, and you can grade well enough to pour concrete over. I doubt many people would feel comfortable pouring concrete over their postion control graded subbase.

I'm really not here to stir the pot. I just thought some people might be interesting in knowing a little more about grading tractors.
 

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   / New "B" series catalog.. #113  
MessickFarmEqu said:
Thus the problem with internet forums. Everyone is an expert, even if they've got no pratical experience with what they are talking about./quote]

Ain't that the truth:)
 
   / New "B" series catalog.. #114  
rickster said:
When I was shopping for my tractor I looked at the kioti ck20 with position control. I wasn't impressed with the CRACKING LOADER PROBLEMS and the cheezy fix job kioti came up with!:rolleyes: I decided on a B7800 with 1/4 inching and plenty of Kubota dealers in the area!!:D

Yes, but the feature-to-feature comparison of a CK to the B7800 (no position control :eek: ) would suggest that you should still have bought the CK as it had a better value index. Having a cracked loader and the manufacturer ignore your pleadings shouldn't be a consideration.
 
   / New "B" series catalog..
  • Thread Starter
#115  
A CEO once asked me which one of my Toolmakers was the best. I replied that it depended on what kind of problems he needed addressed on any given day. In my department were many highly skilled people, and hundreds of years of combined experience with that company. We functioned well as a team, the skills, and aptitudes of all contributing to a whole that was greater than the sum of the parts.
I think that Kubota tractors tend to be like that too. We can nit pick this feature or that, and find proponents for, and against almost any feature that we choose, but in the end it is the overall fuction of the total machine that matters. I think the new B's will function quite well for their intended tasks, and some that weren't intended. I think they will be well accepted, and if they continue to hold their price point (and it appears they will) Kubota's place in that market will remain secure for sure.
When I started this thread, I was hoping to have a discussion about the worth of the upgrade, what it meant to users of the current small B's, and if folks thought that the changes might take market share from JD, or other companies. The thread took a different turn, and I'm sorry if any comment I might have made about position control had anything to do with that.
 
   / New "B" series catalog.. #116  
ChuckinNH said:
The thread took a different turn, and I'm sorry if any comment I might have made about position control had anything to do with that.

Darn troublemaker. :D
 
   / New "B" series catalog.. #117  
Keerym-I love that Cat.

Some reason I think it may cost a little more then my B7800 :)

Probably run 10,000 hours with no rebuild, or about 5 lifetimes for me!

BTW-my old boss lives in Gilbert. Very nice place!
 
   / New "B" series catalog.. #119  
It's interesting to see the continued defensiveness about the lack of position control here, especially by the Kubota dealers. No one said you cannot do the work with quarter inching. Neil is correct that 95% of his customers don't care or even know what the difference is....that is because most people buying a standard B series are using them primarily to mow and don't even use the 3PT (again Neil's point). I'll believe Art's points when I see Kubota substitute quarter inching for position control on it's deluxe tractors.

If quarter inching was an advantage over position control then why in the world would Kubota only offer position control on their premium tractors? Kubota had a chance with this latest freshening of the excellent standard B series to improve the 3PT hydraulic control system. They did not do it and I can think of at least three reasons: 1) their entry level customers don't care or are oblivous to the difference (Neil's point), 2) it costs Kubota an extra $10 in parts which they can pocket or 3) (my choice of explanation), it serves as an excellent "upsell" point when trying to move a customer from a standard to a more profitable deluxe B series tractor.
 
   / New "B" series catalog.. #120  
Probably alittle bit of all 3 points.
Way back when (3 yrs ago to be exact) I was considering the CK20 vs the B7510 vs the GC2300 vs the BX2230 and I found things I liked with all of the above. ( I quickly ruled out the green due to many bad dealer experiences but thats a story I've covered many times in the past).
I could have went with either and I'm sure I would have been happy with the choice but I had established a criteria to whittle each down to an eventual single choice that fit my needs the best. My criteria, in no particular order was:
1) price, I wanted the most machine for the best bargain.
2) reputation, I wanted to go w/an established brand. I didn't want to get stuck w/ poor after sales support, i.e. service, parts, upgrades etc.
3) finish mowing quality, my primary purpose of the machine is to give me a high quality finish cut of alittle over 4 acres of lawn and former pasture. This was the 1st and formost purpose of the tractor. (at the time I was using a 23hp L&G tracor to finish mow and a 5' brush hog to maintain the pasture).
4) adaptability to do more than just mow, maintaining 4 acres entails more than just mowing so I wanted a machine that could dig, move material and provide a platform for other useful implements. I was also wanting to consolidate two machines into one.

I then built a spreadsheet listing each tractors ranking in the above categories and surprisingly the BX23 made an 11th hr run to make the grade. I decided a BH was the "unnecessary" premium feature I would spring for :D

I ruled out the CK20 for 3 reasons,
1) I didn't see any out in the fields around me,
2) the one and only dealer within 50 miles of me wouldn't budge on the price. He priced it nearly $1000 over the B7510 which was even higher than a B7610.
3) the fit and finish just didn't seem as well thought out as the Kubota's. I especially didn;t like the way the FEL's hoses interfered w/the pedals.
As I stated earlier, I have done "tons' of 3PH work with a tractor that only boasted that it had "draft control" and I had no problems grading w/a boxblade nor working any other 3ph implment so position control wasn't an important consideration. Sure it makes it easier but then again a cab w/heat & AC makes mowing alot easier too :D and to me neither are "necessary" for my tasks.......

I ruled out the GC 2300 primarily because the MMM was a ground contact type that I feel my former pasture would beat to death (as it did several L&G mower decks). And the one of the Kubota dealers also carried MF's so I got to compare teh GC2300 side x side w/a BX2230 and the BX just out shined the GC2300. The GC2300 had alot of surface rust od the flywheel and other surfaces.

I ruled out the B7510 also because of the MMM type and I thought the HST whined too much. The operators platform was also a tighter fit than the BX as I couldn;t mount/dismount without my arse hitting levers......

My BX23's 3PH doesn't have position control nor even 1/4 inching and somehow, someway the 3PH work I do with it seems to get done with little to no problems at all. I guess I must be talented :D

And to address the point about the economics of offering nicer but "unnecessary" refinements to a machine inorder to make it more profitable for the manufacturer, well, ain't that good business? :D
 

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