New Chainsaw Question

[LD1]

The refurbished husky saws you speak of ARE the box store models.

These are NOT professional saws. They are actually the same as the poulans and such, since they are both owned by the same parent company, electrolux.

This does NOT make husqvarna a bad company or a bad brand. If anything, it makes them a SMART company. Because they see the need of homeowners who dont want or need a profession grade saw with the professional price tag either.

Mountainlake: I dont see where you are comming up with a 2lb difference???

The echo is 13lbs dry w/o bar and chain. The husky is 13.4 lbs. That is only a .4lb difference NOT 2lbs. Now I suppose if you wanted to put a 16" bar on the echo and a 28" on the husky, AND only fill the gas and oil to half on the echo and clear full on the husky, then maybe. But Dry powerheads are only .4lbs difference, NOT 2.

And yes, I do believe the publishers #'s when it comes to weight and HP. These companies are TOO smart to play games. Last thing any of them want is a big lawsuit like with the pushmowers a year or two ago. If anything they all probabally underrate them a tad, but not too much because that would cost them sales.

An I Must be mus-understanding what you are saying about the 385xp, the cs8000, and the ps7900???? Too much talk about "good torque" and "lacking torque" etc. Are you implying that the cs8000 is faster than both the 385 and ps7900?????

And in general, while on the topic of saw speed and how fast saws cut, chain type, how it is sharpened, and raker depth can mean more than HP or CC. Those of you who sharpen your own chains can attest to this. I can take a much smaller and less powerful saw with a good sharp chain, and out cut a bigger saw sharpened by hand without a guide by average JOE homeowner who has only ever sharpened a chain 3 or 4 times. When I buy a brand new chain, first thing I do is drop the rakers, cause out of the box chain is SLOOOOOOWWWWW.

 

[Nitro-Fish]

Raker's......what do you need those for.......oh, thats right, those are for saws with not enough horsepower! Whoops, wrong forum.

Raker height is everything as long as you have a saw with enought grunt (and experience in saw handling) to get by with lower ones, if you're going to compare saws, you better pay attention to HP & rpm ratings; the major players know its not good business to try and fudge on the weight & HP (aka the power to weight ratio) when someone is trying to make a living with a saw.

Echo makes some good OPE, but when it comes to saws (at least the newer ones) there are better manufacturers out there.

LD1, you have posted some good replies :thumbsup:

 

[MiserableOldFart]

I'd have to ask why there are so many refurbished Husky saws showing up. Steve

I looked around other places, but the only place I actually saw them was at a full service dealer about 20 miles from here. He has the whole line of Huskys, I think. Might go back there this week and take another look.

The thing I was immediately struck by, looking at his inventory, was that the saws all came with the shortest bars. I didn't ask, but the other Husky dealer I visited mentioned that they keep 20" bars on everything on the floor and will put whatever you want on the thing. I kind of like the idea of getting a small and large bar and chain for different uses.

One of the things I like about the Echos is they come with nose guards. If I end up with a 24" bar, I will be able to do about 80% or more of my bucking with that guard on. I dislike burying the bar anywhere I can't see it, though my current saws all have the "popup" kickback preventers there. I also, at 60 years old, feel more comfortable dealing with a longer bar than the back-and-forth of cutting large logs with small saws. I know it can be done, but it's a PITA.

For smaller bucking jobs, I take along a cheapo Tractor Supply 2 ton trolley jack, and usually can find a place or two to stuff it to get long sections an inch or two off the ground.. I like that. Worked nicely today on windfall hemlock about 20" at the fall-off point, but I have to get the trunk down later because there's about 20 feet of that still standing. Hemlock is cool. A soft wood with knots as hard as iron that dull your saw like crazy and until I got a splitter, was about impossible to split by hand. Have ten acres of hemlock so it's one of those things.. if God gives you hemlock, you drink hemlock tea. (Which is really pretty good. Wouldn't drink it often, but a few sprigs of new growth in a cup of hot water is very nice on a cold spring day.)

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Oh, forgot to ask.. was posted above that Echo puts KW ratings on their site, but I don't see them. All I see is the cc's.. is there maybe a non-USA site where they put that data, or am I not looking in the right place?

 

[mountainlake]

The refurbished husky saws you speak of ARE the box store models.

These are NOT professional saws. They are actually the same as the poulans and such, since they are both owned by the same parent company, electrolux.

This does NOT make husqvarna a bad company or a bad brand. If anything, it makes them a SMART company. Because they see the need of homeowners who dont want or need a profession grade saw with the professional price tag either.

Mountainlake: I dont see where you are comming up with a 2lb difference???

The echo is 13lbs dry w/o bar and chain. The husky is 13.4 lbs. That is only a .4lb difference NOT 2lbs. Now I suppose if you wanted to put a 16" bar on the echo and a 28" on the husky, AND only fill the gas and oil to half on the echo and clear full on the husky, then maybe. But Dry powerheads are only .4lbs difference, NOT 2.

And yes, I do believe the publishers #'s when it comes to weight and HP. These companies are TOO smart to play games. Last thing any of them want is a big lawsuit like with the pushmowers a year or two ago. If anything they all probabally underrate them a tad, but not too much because that would cost them sales.

An I Must be mus-understanding what you are saying about the 385xp, the cs8000, and the ps7900???? Too much talk about "good torque" and "lacking torque" etc. Are you implying that the cs8000 is faster than both the 385 and ps7900?????

And in general, while on the topic of saw speed and how fast saws cut, chain type, how it is sharpened, and raker depth can mean more than HP or CC. Those of you who sharpen your own chains can attest to this. I can take a much smaller and less powerful saw with a good sharp chain, and out cut a bigger saw sharpened by hand without a guide by average JOE homeowner who has only ever sharpened a chain 3 or 4 times. When I buy a brand new chain, first thing I do is drop the rakers, cause out of the box chain is SLOOOOOOWWWWW.

I own and operate a CS8000 a 385xp and a 7900 Dolmar. In a 20 second cut in big oak there might be 1 second difference in the 3 of them using sharp chiesel chain. What saws do you run? The Echo turn slower but has the torque to take bigger chips and can handle a low raker chain good, the 385 is in the middle and the 7900 needs to keep the RPM's up. Far as wieght ready to cut the CS8000 and 385xp both wieght 23# and the 7900 is 20-1/3#. On paper the 385 is over 1# lighter than the 8000 yet they wieght the same. Believe published numbers if you want , I don't. I always wonder why people that haven't run Echo saws have to put them down. Most everyone that uses my CS520 wants to know where to buy one. Steve

 

[mountainlake]

Oh, forgot to ask.. was posted above that Echo puts KW ratings on their site, but I don't see them. All I see is the cc's.. is there maybe a non-USA site where they put that data, or am I not looking in the right place?

There are some nz and uk site that list kw numbers for the CS600, one has it at 4.3 hp and the other at 4.0 hp. Published numbers mean nothing and are just selling points. Steve

 

[LD1]

LD1, you have posted some good replies :thumbsup:

What can I say, I like chainsaws. I like 'em a lot. :licking::licking::licking::licking:

I own and operate a CS8000 a 385xp and a 7900 Dolmar. In a 20 second cut in big oak there might be 1 second difference in the 3 of them using sharp chiesel chain. What saws do you run? The Echo turn slower but has the torque to take bigger chips and can handle a low raker chain good, the 385 is in the middle and the 7900 needs to keep the RPM's up. Far as wieght ready to cut the CS8000 and 385xp both wieght 23# and the 7900 is 20-1/3#. On paper the 385 is over 1# lighter than the 8000 yet they wieght the same. Believe published numbers if you want , I don't. I always wonder why people that haven't run Echo saws have to put them down. Most everyone that uses my CS520 wants to know where to buy one. Steve

For the record, I am not saying te echo is a bad saw. I am not putting them down. I even said a few times that they were a great saw with a great warrenty. Their quality is excellent, but they MAY not be quite as fast and powerful as some of the husky/dolmar/stihls. It may be just in how the saw is built or tuned??? But the root promblen is the OP not comparing apples to apples. The echo LOOKS $300 cheaper, but It is NOT when you compare it to the appropriate husky saw. Or compare the appropriate echo to the husky.

And the basic answer to the "is the 372 worth $300 more than the cs600" I have already answered. It is different for different people. It obviously must be worth it to some otherwise they wouldn't sell any 372xp's, and vice versa.

And "what saws do I run" See my signature. Tose are my current saws, but I have also had and ran a Stihl 066, 385xp, husky 570, husky 365, husky 272xp, jonsered 630, and some smaller ones in the recent past.

 

[arrow]

I understand now MOF. You are not looking for speed as much as you are looking for convenience with your method of bucking. If one is cutting up stems in a pile, I'll take the shorter bar every time. With your method, you just want to make the complete cut in one motion and not move to the other side of the log to finish the cut. You like the Echo because you have experience with them being good saws. I on the other hand, could care less about what brand saw is in my hands as long as it can produce. There are a couple of European saws I have not used and most people have not heard of, as well as I have not had a Shindawa in my hands. I've used and owned and sold just about every other saw under the sun. All pro saws in the same class cut the same for me so I have little allegiance to any particualr brand. Any saw you want to pull a 24" bar with authority needs torque over horse power so I would not necessarily opt for the fastest saw. Piston weights have much to do with speed and torque and is why all of these labeled saws cut differently with identical or close specs. Same as with engines there is no substitute for cubic inches (actually there is and is called rpm's) but with chainsaws, cc's rule with a fully engaged bar.
Good luck with your purchase.

 

[mountainlake]

On 2 cycle motors the hieght of the exhaust port affects the power and torque of the motor. Ones with high ports will have more RPM and may a bit more peak hp but at the expence of lower rpm torque. Ones with lower ports might have a little less peak hp but will have a nice wide powerband that doesn't fall off like the high port saws. If you can keep the high port saws in that little narrow powerband they should cut a bit faster but I like saws with a wide powerband where everthing doesn't have to be perfect. I think Husky is getting away from the real high port saws like the Rancher 55 and old 346xp that had to be kept just right to cut good and lowered the port with thier Xtra torque models . Steve

 

[LD1]

Oh, forgot to ask.. was posted above that Echo puts KW ratings on their site, but I don't see them. All I see is the cc's.. is there maybe a non-USA site where they put that data, or am I not looking in the right place?

It is NOT listed on their echo-usa site. But the KW is listed on their echo-worldwide site. heres the link. Product Details CS-600 | ECHO

The echo is a great saw. But if you plan on burrying the 24" bar frequently, I think you are going to want a little more cc's and HP. Wether or not the 372xp is worth $300 more to you doesnt matter, but it will pull the 24" much better. But dont rule them out. Don't shop by what size bar they rate them for. Shop by cc's. If you are looking at a 60cc echo, be fair and compair to 60cc saws from the other makes. Husky 357 or 359, dolmar 6400, stihl has a bunch in that range but the 310 is not bad for around $400, The 361 is better but more $$$. But again, as you probabally already figured out, I am partial to dolmars. The 6400 IMO is one of the best in the 60-70cc range. And before I would buy a 372xp, for the money I would look at the 7900 and really eat some wood

On 2 cycle motors the hieght of the exhaust port affects the power and torque of the motor. Ones with high ports will have more RPM and may a bit more peak hp but at the expence of lower rpm torque. Ones with lower ports might have a little less peak hp but will have a nice wide powerband that doesn't fall off like the high port saws. If you can keep the high port saws in that little narrow powerband they should cut a bit faster but I like saws with a wide powerband where everthing doesn't have to be perfect. I think Husky is getting away from the real high port saws like the Rancher 55 and old 346xp that had to be kept just right to cut good and lowered the port with thier Xtra torque models . Steve

Right on. Good info. But then again, I like tearing them appart, yanking the base gasket to bump compression and drop the ports a tad to give more torque. Followed by a little porting and with the bump in compression, you get more power than before and more torque due to dropping the ports as well. It is a win win. But you probabally already know about all of that. Are you the same mountainlake on AS??

 

[mountainlake]

Yes the same mountainlake, I'd agree if he's going to be cutting big wood a lot get a 372 or better yet a 7900. if he only has a few big ones and most are smaller get a 60cc saws, I'm pushing 60 and a 70 cc saws wears me out fast, I can run a 15"# full 50cc all day. Steve

 

[LD1]

Yes the same mountainlake,

Well, welcome to this forum steve. I like it here better than there. But to each his own I guess. It just seems to be a friendlier environment here with a wider range of topics IMO. I rarley go there unless it is to search for dumb stuff like saw problems or to get an idea of what a particular saw is worth.

 

[mountainlake]

Thanks, theres a lot of follow the leader over there and some that shouldn't run a saw. They can sure get a a guy like a pack of wolves sometimes. Steve

 

[Chilly807]

I haven't been that impressed by Husqvarna over the past while, maybe that's just me. I've got an older 242 that works really well, but for a bigger saw I run an older 044 Stihl with 20" bar.

Husky's quality seems to have suffered in the past 10 years or so, a 372 calls for a lot of cash out of pocket in my opinion. If I had to buy either a 372 Husky or a 441 Stihl new, which I hope I never have to, the Stihl would get the nod.

Echo makes a good saw, they just don't have the following the Husky and Stihl does.

No experience with Dolmar in the past 20 years.

Sean

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Again, thanks for all the replies. The thing about the 372 is, it feels lighter than other comparable saws I've picked up. Was at a Stihl dealer today and was holding some of their saws, and they felt heavy. He was recommending a 440 (I think, the model numbers are swimming around me) but didn't have one in stock, but the smaller one, the 362, I think, just felt too heavy for my 60 year frame. Went to a Husky dealer and again held the 372 (which is apparently at the end of its run because Husky only shows the wrap-around model on their site) and it again felt quite a bit lighter.

Tried to get to the Echo dealer but couldn't find him. Left my mapquest map home. I'll call him tomorrow. Can't buy a saw without feeling it in my hands, for sure.

The Husky Rancher refurbisheds only carry a 90 day warranty. So I dropped that off my "possibles" list. Not an appropriate guarantee for a factory refurbished, IMHO. I was aware that they are not the top line Huskys, but if they had a year warranty I might have jumped on one anyway.

Stihl guy was cool. Had the saws lined up in three rows top shelf homeowner, second shelf, landowner, bottom shelf pro and all three in ascending size from left to right, with price tags. I do not like dealers who don't put price tags on the machines. The Stihls have a very good look about them, felt solid, nice fit and finish, etc.

Saw a Husky 372 for about $100 less than quoted by the other dealer the other day. Won't bite on it though until I've held the Echos in my hand.

Don't know why $750 or more for a saw gives me sticker shock. My CS 500 VL set me back $350 and that was 25 years ago, so it's natural to expect price to double and then add some for a bigger machine.

 

[LD1]

Again, thanks for all the replies. The thing about the 372 is, it feels lighter than other comparable saws I've picked up. Was at a Stihl dealer today and was holding some of their saws, and they felt heavy. He was recommending a 440 (I think, the model numbers are swimming around me) but didn't have one in stock, but the smaller one, the 362, I think, just felt too heavy for my 60 year frame. Went to a Husky dealer and again held the 372 (which is apparently at the end of its run because Husky only shows the wrap-around model on their site) and it again felt quite a bit lighter.

Tried to get to the Echo dealer but couldn't find him. Left my mapquest map home. I'll call him tomorrow. Can't buy a saw without feeling it in my hands, for sure.

The Husky Rancher refurbisheds only carry a 90 day warranty. So I dropped that off my "possibles" list. Not an appropriate guarantee for a factory refurbished, IMHO. I was aware that they are not the top line Huskys, but if they had a year warranty I might have jumped on one anyway.

Stihl guy was cool. Had the saws lined up in three rows top shelf homeowner, second shelf, landowner, bottom shelf pro and all three in ascending size from left to right, with price tags. I do not like dealers who don't put price tags on the machines. The Stihls have a very good look about them, felt solid, nice fit and finish, etc.

Saw a Husky 372 for about $100 less than quoted by the other dealer the other day. Won't bite on it though until I've held the Echos in my hand.

Don't know why $750 or more for a saw gives me sticker shock. My CS 500 VL set me back $350 and that was 25 years ago, so it's natural to expect price to double and then add some for a bigger machine.

If you can, do more than just hold the saws. A good dealer will have a log out back and let you run the saws before you buy.

And the 460, while not a TRUE pro saw, it is darn close. It used to be that there were two types, homeowner and pro. Pro saws had the magnesium cases and adjustable oilers while the homeowners had plastic cases and NON adjustable oilers. It used to be black and white.

Husky and some others have blured the line a bit with their "landowner" models. They still have the mag cases and adjustable oilers and are built as good as pro saws, they just aren't tuned to run the RPM and make the HP as to not overshadow their pro saws.

Some examples in the husky lineup of darn good saws are the 460, 365, and the 570. The 365 is actually the exact same saw as the 372xp but with a smaller jug and piston.

 

[Chilly807]

Again, thanks for all the replies. The thing about the 372 is, it feels lighter than other comparable saws I've picked up. Was at a Stihl dealer today and was holding some of their saws, and they felt heavy. He was recommending a 440 (I think, the model numbers are swimming around me) but didn't have one in stock, but the smaller one, the 362, I think, just felt too heavy for my 60 year frame. Went to a Husky dealer and again held the 372 (which is apparently at the end of its run because Husky only shows the wrap-around model on their site) and it again felt quite a bit lighter.

The 440/441 is the Stihl answer to the 372XP, as I recall it's 72 cc as well. Mine is the older model 044, the 441 is the modern version of the same saw.

LD is right, it's really worth leaning on the dealer to let you run the saw for a couple minutes before buying. Vibration is a big factor in saws that size. I've never run a 372, so I can't comment. The 044 I have, even with 20 year old anti-vibe bushings is smooth as silk, accelerates and cuts like an F1 car.

The 372 is probably about the same, neither Husky nor Stihl can afford to let the other dominate that market, that size saw is hugely popular with pro loggers.

I don't like any big saw for limbing, they're just too heavy. I usually drop either the 262 Husky or the 044 Stihl in the tractor bucket for felling and bucking big stuff, and let the 242 Husky do what it does best, limbing. I also have an older 023 Stihl that's a surprisingly durable homeowner saw for light work like limbing and fence posts. Good power for a 40 cc saw too.

Good luck with the saw!

Sean

 

[dfkrug]

But again, as you probabally already figured out, I am partial to dolmars. The 6400 IMO is one of the best in the 60-70cc range.

I agree. I rented the Makita version of the Dolmar 6400 back in the 90s,
and I would have bought one if it did not cost so much more than the
455 Rancher. Trying it out for a half day was a great test.

I need a good small saw, too, because I am cutting on very steep slopes.
My current Makita suffered a broken plastic body where the starter
cord is, making it hard to start at times. The part costs as much as I paid
for the whole saw. Maybe I should get one of those small top-handle pro
saws. Any experience with those, LD1?

 

[LD1]

I agree. I rented the Makita version of the Dolmar 6400 back in the 90s,
and I would have bought one if it did not cost so much more than the
455 Rancher. Trying it out for a half day was a great test.

I need a good small saw, too, because I am cutting on very steep slopes.
My current Makita suffered a broken plastic body where the starter
cord is, making it hard to start at times. The part costs as much as I paid
for the whole saw. Maybe I should get one of those small top-handle pro
saws. Any experience with those, LD1?

Actually the dolmar 6400 (actually the makita version) is one of the best saws for the money. The 455ranchers run about $400 if memory serves me correctly. The makita DCS6401 can be had for $499 at baileysonline.com most dealers sell the dolmar version, the ps6400, for around $600 bucks. But we were buying 4 saws total when we bought the 6400's and they met the price baileys has. he sold them for $500OTD. Which was actually less than baileys by the time you figure shipping. And the dealer actually sold them for less than that because of the TAX.

It always amazes me when I talk to professionals that have been around saws and cutting forever who say that they have never heard of dolmar:confused2: But they are top-notch just like stihl and husky. Several companies "claim" to have invented the first gas-powered chainsaw, and dolmar is one of them making that claim. Regardless of who actually did, dolmar has been around since the 1920's.

As to the top handel saws, no I have actually never owned one. I perfer a larger saw with at least a 24" bar. Less bending over and I can also reach higher limbs. So I have never felt the need for a top handel. But the pros around here seem to use either the husky 338xpt or the stihl ms200t, so they must be decient. I just cant see spending $400 give or take for little and slow saw.

 

[crazyal]

If I'm not mistaken the 372XP is being upgraded. I thought I read something about a new version replacing the older one.