New Driveway- 2 pavement options..help!!

[JBS71383]

I believe I.D. 2 is what we call top coat or sometimes 9 MM, I say believe because I don't recall anyone calling it I.D 2. If that is the case I would not use it as only shot. It is made up of smaller stone which gives it that smoother look.

Yes, you are correct, the ID2 is what they are using as a top coat around here..Thats our "smooth finish" mixture that gets used on all of the 2 layer driveways...

The one company wants to use ID3 which i believe is 3/4" stone and 1/2" stone?? From what I read, wouldnt this absorb more water than the ID2?

What are your thoughts on millings??

 

[Soundguy]

the stone, once bituminous coated.. should be 'absorbing' any water.. it should be an aquaclude and shed water to the sides or a side.. IE.. it should be crowned.. if there is no crown, or a negative crown you will have a swimming pool...

it's not a sponge, despite what it looks like.

unconsolodated gravel ont he other had.. water will flow thru it, albiet slower.. etc.

soundguy

 

[75H2]

I have a question. I have about 8,800 sqf of drive I would like to pave one day. Got a quote last year at 22K. Almost choked. In the interim I was considering doing a concrete apron infromt of the garage. My reasoning is that once the kids are old enough to drive their cars will sit outside. I want concrete there so ruts don't form. I was also thinking about going 6 inches, not 4. Is 4K PSI enough. It's taken me a long time to realize it's cheaper to do it right the first time. Anyone wish to comment. Am I on the right track?

 

[tommu56]

generically the compression in the "2" 1 1/2 lifts will be better than one 3" lift I worked with the contractor doing our fire house lot house with 2 lifts the difference is the second set of labor for the second layer he said that the 2 lift approach was better 90% of the time.

JFR I raised 4 kids on a gravel road and drive and would do it again in a hart beat it just toughens therm up:laughing:.
They all learned to ride bikes coasting down a hill in our lawn to cushion their fall no training wheels ever.
step ahead 25 years I got my grandson a running bike. to learn to balance.

That way he is learning to balance and not having the pedals whacking him in the legs and feet then on to a bike with out training wheels.

tom

 

[JBS71383]

Well, last night I was outside with my son and I see one of the contractors pull in my driveway... He basically just stopped by to see if I had any questions and to follow up. He is doing a driveway in the development near my house and stopped by since I am on the way... What basically happened was, since i hadnt made upmy mind yet, he knocked $660 off the price.. He came right out and said, " i need the work, I need to keep my guys busy". He said since I am so close to the other job, he can cut me more of a deal since all the equipment is already here and he wont have to fill the truck up again etc etc.... He is the guy who wants to do the 3" I.D. 3 .. Not sure what to do, as his price came down to about what the other guys are for the single lift.. Not sure if its a sales pitch, or the truth.. All of the contractors I talked to did say that business isnt the greatest now... This guy is a 3rd generation paver, and the company has been in business for 75 years, so I dont think hes a fly by nighter.....He did say that he uses a 3 ton vibratory roller and the same machines to put this stuff down as the binder and top coat...Not sure what to do now, since the quotes for the single lift are all basically the same...He seems to be pushing the single lift over the binder and top coat, I think because its more affordable so he could get the business... Any thoughts on what to do

 

[Soundguy]

in the end.. both are gonna be a real close 'finish' product for yer kids to ride a bike on.

not having to remobalize his equipment is where alot of the cost savings is coming from.

he's right about the economy. our co. is barely staying afloat. i can remember 10ys ago we wouldn't even look at doing a 'parking lot' now we will SWEEP a parking lot and wash yer dishes..

1 lift or 2 lifts. you've got a good base already to work with...

for heavy loads like BIG trucks.. etc.. I'd personally go with a non surface course as it is finer and will rut easier.. but that's just my opinion..

soundguy

 

[JBS71383]

He told me that, next year when I seal it, I wont be able to tell the difference between having a top coat or this stuff.. He also said 15 years or so down the road I would be able to put on a 1 1/2" layer of top coat over the 3" if I had to....I did ask him about other contractors using the fine course as a single 3" layer and he said what you are saying.. it will rut more..

I can imagine these contractors are looking for work as this economy is really still shaky, plus with the increase in asphalt prices, Im sure business wont be growing anytime soon.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. I'd personally go with the non-surface course.. etc. and yes.. later on, if not damaged.. you can always broom it off, re-tack it with bituminous liquid as a binder, and put anoother lift of 'anything' on it if you wanted.

soundguy

 

[Diamondpilot]

I am in the other camp and would go with 2" base and 1" top in our climate. I hear too many bad stories about severe cracking with 1 single layer around here.

Go back and re-read my first reply. I went though all the same decisions as you last April, about a year and a half ago. Same size drive, climate, ect. I am very happy with my results.

By the way, propane truck and a dump truck have both been on it with no issues. I also have 3 trailers. One never gets over 7,000# but the other is 10,000# and the last one is 18,000# and not a single issue either.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

Roadbuilding used to be the bulk of our work when the economy was good. done it since 84. 1" asphalt lift on top of more good asphalt with proper tack coat, and proper stabilized sub grade should not be an issue. Roads are capped with 1" lifts around here all the time if there is a surface imperfection or bad joint they need to rework. they call it an overlay down here.. not sure what it is called elsewhere. seems paving nomenclature and procedure is different in every region.

i was reading a study about paving in alaska.. thy boxed out and then dumped out of a truck and use a road grader to spread it.. black base style.. weirdest thing i've ever seen..

soundguy

 

[Egon]

Laid Asphalt quality has a lot of variables to it so it's really hard to compare the results unless everything is done to a specified standard.

The driveways and small jobs will have many a deviation from what would be considered standard on a properly supervised Government road paving job.

Variables:

First and foremost is the sub grade, material type, depth, standard of compaction, drainage and even finished smoothness.

Type of asphalt used, type and grading of the crushed gravel used, The actually mixing plant design, size and operator skill, Job site delivery temperatures, Type of compaction equipment used and the compaction method, Degree to which it is compacted, the thickness of the mat, the outside temperature and weather and lots of items I neither know or have forgotten.

Also one must realize the small job lots may use a blend of asphalts on hand, aggragate that does not meet the specs that major users will demand and perhaps lower temperatures and less mixing at the plant.



Makes it hard to compare jobs.:thumbsup:

 

[MMH]

Good post -tag for future reference.

 

[sparc]

Great thread. I am looking into replacing the asphlat in our driveway as it is developing some depressions where water pools as well as cracks and beginning to break down. The drive is from 1987, so I think its lived a full life.

I want to have it taken up and repaved. Its only 1500sf (24' Wide x 63' Long). What's there now appears to be base, and coarser than we would like the finish or top coat to be.


Normal traffic is just cars and my pickups (F-350 and F-150), so nothing real heavy daily, but we do get the oil delivery truck every few months and occasional deliveries such as appliances, furniture, etc. but those are one time events more or less if you know what I mean.

So what do I want to do there? I like the look of the finer aggrerate but want something that will hold up for 15 years or more.

Also, I am concerned about my septic tank and cesspool which is located next to the driveway. Could there be a problem with the equipment used so close to the cesspool?

I will be getting prices this coming week and looking to be a little better informed when I talk to the contractors. Worked in construction most of my life but never anything to do with paving in my past so this is all new to me.

 

[Gary Fowler]

For that size, I would think seriously of putting in a concrete driveway. You might even think about putting it over the top of your asphalt if you don't mind the extra height. 3 1/2" of concrete should do fine over that solid base.

 

[sparc]

Concrete would cost more of course, how much I'm not sure but I would guess
at least 50% more since there is much more labor involved.

Concrete would be nice yes, but taxes increase with concrete drives here, asphalt is not
considered a permanent improvement. Is that not the case elsewhere?

I would need to take up the old asphalt so the new drive would run flush with the entrance
to the garage and also the concrete curb which looks similar to the one below. I think they
call it a gutter curb.

 

[paulharvey]

As long as your old drive has less than 3/4-1" rutting, I would just do a 1.5" over lay. Of coarse patching larger holes and tacking the whole thing. I wouldn't rip up the old, that's lot of labor, trucking, and yiu don't come out any better. If yiur worried about fineness if finish, have them sand and traffic roll it.

1.5" is the boarder between sp-9.5 and sp-12.5 (S3 and S1 old marshal mixes), but the 9.5 will look better, but rut slighlty faster.

 

[paulharvey]

I didn't read the part about the curb, sorry. That makes things a bit more expensive, yiu have a couple options:
A: take up existing asphalt and repave
B: mill it and repave (most expensive)
C: mill along curb and garage and overlay
D: mill at garage or feather the joint down, or eve saw cut 3 ft wide strip, and over lay the "gutter" portion if the curb

 

[Chemguy]

We're looking into paving the drive to a garage we built 2 years ago, and ran into the zoning officer the other day. He asked how things were going, and we told him about our plans. He suggested that we use asphalt, not concrete. Around here, if the township needs to dig up the drive for utility access, they will only repave with asphalt even if the original surface is concrete.

Though my comment isn't really in line with the main topic in this thread, this might be an important consideration for some.

 

[Chemguy]

We're looking into paving the drive to a garage we built 2 years ago, and ran into the zoning officer the other day. He asked how things were going, and we told him about our plans. He suggested that we use asphalt, not concrete. Around here, if the township needs to dig up the drive for utility access, they will only repave with asphalt even if the original surface is concrete.

Though my comment isn't really in line with the main topic in this thread, this might be an important consideration for some.

 

[paulharvey]

In the county I work for, we replace concrete with concrete and asphalt with asphalt. If it wasn't for the complaints, trust me we would do asphalt in all if them, it's less than half the price, faster, and you can drive over it within 15 minutes of paving.