New farm owners: CUT or UT?

[GManBart]

Who cares? It was Ford. Then it was Ford/New Holland. Now it is New Holland. Same line of tractors. Name changed. Big deal. All are under the CNH Industrial umbrella which is majority owned by Fiat Industrial.

No, it's not the same line of tractors at all.

 

[tjkadar]

Similar paint, but no common background, and a completely different company now. Calling a current NH a Ford is no different than calling it a Deere....it's not remotely correct.

People come to this site for help, and to learn things, and making a statement that is completely incorrect, about a topic that can be confusing to new folks, does them a disservice.



Other than a few of the smaller machines made by Yanmar, I don't think Deere has anybody else making any of their tractors. That is not the case for Massey.

Parts availability isn't a problem on new models for almost any brand. I was talking about machines that are made by other companies, and go out of production...getting parts for them becomes a problem in many cases. Even machines that are only 10 years old can be an issue. My Massey 241 was made in Turkey, and they made a nearly identical model, the 231S in Poland. Even when you're really careful, and get the correct part number, there are times when the original, correct part, is no longer available, and that's a machine that isn't even 15 years old yet. I ordered a fitting for the power steering pump...the original was "replaced by X" and they show it as being compatible....nope, not even close. Outsourcing has costs, and parts availability is one of them.

My point was that if the OP wants to look at a Massey, he should try to find out if it's one of the models actually made by Massey, because that can be a plus down the road.

You're right, a 10 year old tractor is not what I would call old or consider a legacy machine. This is one area that John Deere does a pretty darned good job. I can get parts for a JD 4010 or 4020 all day long.

 

[murphy1244]

You're right, a 10 year old tractor is not what I would call old or consider a legacy machine. This is one area that John Deere does a pretty darned good job. I can get parts for a JD 4010 or 4020 all day long.

Some of the Deeres are getting hard to find too.

 

[bglz42]

I would look at the JD 5045D. Tough, simple, cheap and proven. Loved mine... great resale too.

 

[dcfresh7]

No point in hijacking my thread over the blue tractor argument, as they're not in the running. Its between JD, Kubota, then Massey. They're my closest dealers.

Another question, however, and its regarding the 3-point hitches on the above brands. Our pasture has a lot of undulation, with very few nice flat stretches, so we really need whatever rotary cutter we go with to follow the ground as best as is possible. Who makes the best rear 3-point for the job?

 

[GManBart]

No point in hijacking my thread over the blue tractor argument, as they're not in the running.

It's been nearly a week since there was any comment about blue tractors...kinda seems like a non-issue. Don't get tricked into the whole "it's my thread" concept. You started it, but they sort of belong to the entire community. That can be annoying at times, but a few comments won't hijack an entire thread, and most here have been on point.

 

[TSO]

No point in hijacking my thread over the blue tractor argument, as they're not in the running. Its between JD, Kubota, then Massey. They're my closest dealers.

Another question, however, and its regarding the 3-point hitches on the above brands. Our pasture has a lot of undulation, with very few nice flat stretches, so we really need whatever rotary cutter we go with to follow the ground as best as is possible. Who makes the best rear 3-point for the job?

Massey makes by far the best 3 point ... I mean, Mr Ferguson invented it after all.

LOL, to be honest, they're pretty much all the same. I do think that the 3 point area seems to be more "roomy" on the Massey CUT's than competing tractors, but that's just for convenience while hooking up, not sure if it matters during use.

 

[boggen]

No point in hijacking my thread over the blue tractor argument, as they're not in the running. Its between JD, Kubota, then Massey. They're my closest dealers.

Another question, however, and its regarding the 3-point hitches on the above brands. Our pasture has a lot of undulation, with very few nice flat stretches, so we really need whatever rotary cutter we go with to follow the ground as best as is possible. Who makes the best rear 3-point for the job?

overall, moving round bales are going to be your big notation, of driving you up to a larger tractor (HP wise and weight wise), everything else, is pretty much no big deal and any tractor can handle. the exception might be if you go with actually making round bales, but size of acres and over all cost, your more likely better off paying someone else to come in, and make round bales for you. make sure the FEL (front end loader) has enough capacity to lift round bales.

your big ticket items when buying a tractor, normally are.. tractor itself, cab, FEL (front end loader), and a 3pt hitch backhoe with subframe. and then misc... small add-on tractor specific options. everything else can normally be bought 3rd party at a later time, with no significant loss in cash of buying up front in one large purchase, vs saving up little at a time to get other things. (rotatory cutters (bush hog lamen term), PHD (post hole digger), manuer spreader, box blade, etc..., etc...) with that said, if you can get the bigger ticket items in one large purchase, you are more likely to get a larger discount from a dealer. and be money ahead long term.

4x4 / MFWD or like most likely suggested when dealing with slop, both in rainy wet years, to snow/mud in winter, more so with livestock and dealing with feeding them.

hydrostatic transmission, i would suggest, your not really running "farm field operation" but rather livestock operation, that requires a lot of back/forth motions and at different speeds. other words your not setting a gear and forgetting about it, but constantly changing speeds a good portion of the time. kinda of like stop and go traffic downtown in a major city. and a hydrostatic transmission more likely much easier long term for you, for multi tasks that will come up.

differential lock, besides 4x4/MFWD, can be very handy, in lock up rear tires. and getting your rear unstuck. *been there done that*

your getting into larger HP range of tractors were "shuttle shift" might be on option, over various pedals / levers / shifters to go forward/backwards and adjusting your speed. shuttle shift is awesome for a lot of FEL (front end loader work). being able to tap a lever beside steering wheel and instantly go forward/reverse. cleaning out livestock stalls, dealing with round bales (moving to and from trailer to were you are storing them).

if you go with pedals... make sure rear steering brakes (a left and right pedal for left and right rear tires), are on an opposite foot than the (gas/go pedal) to many times, working the split brakes. and other pedal to get my rear unstuck, and to maneuver myself better as i turn in sharp ugly places.

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3pt hitch...
you have telescopic lower lift arms, past easy hitch, quick attach, and TNT (top and tilt), and then generic pain in rear standard 3pt hitch (extreme basic).
--quick attach for 3pt hitch = expect to need to modify some 3pt hitch implements to work with it. and if you plan on doing major weight lifting with 3pt hitch, needing to remove the quick attach. for some things.
--telescopic lower lift arms, can be extremely nice, alternative to quick attach, being able to unlatch, extend arms, connect, then backup tractor. means getting off tractor, but *shrugs*
--pat's easy hitch, can be nice as well, but it can be a tough call between quick attach or pat's easy hitch
--TNT (top and tilt) replace top link with a hyd cylinder, (comes in handy for many things, and hooking up to stuff easier as well), replacing either 1 or both links (turn buckles) with a hyd cylinder to adjust tilt angle can be nice for box blades, rear blades, landscape rake/york rake, maintaining crowns on dirt/gravel driveways / paths through farm. (crown = slight angle on driveway to keep water off of driveway).

pending on things, you may need to pay extra for "swinging draw bar", and extra check chains / sway chains for the 3pt hitch. these things should not be an option but a requirement for you. so you do not tear up the 3pt hitch, and tractor itself. along with having correct tools per say for various jobs/duties you will most likely be doing.

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cab vs open station (no cab) thats up to you.
but... having extra higher up front work lights and rear lights (either on ROP (roll over protection bar), or on a cab), is highly recommended. there are DIY options out there as well. it is just one of them things that really helps, more so in winter as there is less daylight to get stuff done, and actually being able to see what you are doing.

2 to 3 rear hyd remotes (2 should give you all that you need, if you go with TNT, then 3 should be enough within reason, 4 for most folks is pushing it or less they have all the bling, for 3pt hitch and implements)

3rd function joystick for FEL, some folks need/require say a grappel or 4in1 bucket, this can be handy here.

if you plan on hooking up extra work lights, or running a 12v electrical winch, then make sure you get bigger alternator for tractor, normally cab's auto come with bigger alternator, but for what ever reason, not always. it is difference between shutting down tractor, and going to starting it backup and finding battery is dead or not, and having to walk back home.

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if you live in cold area... a block heater is suggested (cheap and easy to install), there are glow plugs, as well, and might be part of a cold package option, if so get it, if in cold weather.

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filling tires... some tractors = manual states you should not fill front tires up with a fluid. and other manuals state it is ok to do so. double check operators manual.
for rear tires on other hand. more so dealing with round bales, it most likely a good idea to get rear tires filled.

if you are putting a 3pt hitch bale spear on back, and a FEL bale spear. all is good, if not, you will most likely want something on 3pt hitch for counter weight of a FEL bale spear. make it a DIY concrete weight box, to some other 3pt hitch implement (box blade, rear blade) something that doesn't really stick out to far behind tractor, like a rotatory cutter does.

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to note it generally "weight is king" when talking about tractors. other words the more the better.

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ag / R1 tires most likely suggested, vs industrial / R4 tires. the deeper lug depth and thinner tires will dig down and keep you going with R1's, vs R4's that will set on top of the mud and = you being stuck.

if you are NOT going out onto the main road with tractor, chains can be a good option as well. if you feel you need them for more traction. ((generally illegal every were in the US for having chains on tires, and going onto blacktop roads, maybe even dirt/gravel roads as well, this applies to tractors and to regular vehicles))

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a deluxe package may seem over kill but i would imagine many of the bells and whistle you may call. are actually wanted / needed / required to get things done. without tearing something up. and most of the little add-on options, generally due pay for themselves. more so when time is money. or you just wanting to get in to warm up in winter or cool down in summer. and not spending another 30 plus minutes to do this or that. you just do not man handle 3pt hitch implements. to heavy, to awkward in hooking them up / unhooking them. and having a large pry bar with cheater bar on it, and sledge hammers *shakes head no*, being able to adjust your speed on the go as you go can be a big thing. being able to see as the sun is coming up or going down, without a flash light in your mouth, a flash light head band strapped to your head, and another flash light just waiting for slightest breeze to fall. so you can hook/unhook stuff, and deal with things. having large outdoor lighting on sheds/barns is one things... but it does not bring the light were you need it with higher above front/rear working lights on tractor.

 

[leeave96]

FWIW - we kind of re-entered the part time farming world this past summer. We started baling hay on some 12 acres and may have more over the next few years. In addition to cutting, raking (future tedding) and square baling (round bales later), I wanted something newer on the tractor front than my otherwise highly reliable MF50 diesel. We also wanted two tractors - the MF50 and another one so worse case we would have a back-up when making hay and best case, have the ability to rake and bale at the same time via two tractors.

In addition to haying, we do a fair amount of bush hogging, a tad bit of moldboard plowing, pulling a disc and a scraper blade for some landscaping at times.

I did not want a CUT because I felt the tractor needed to be at least as heavy duty as my old MF and whatever I bought needed to last as long - my boys will use the new tractor after I'm retired and/or long gone. I looked only at open station - two wheel drive tractors. That's all we've ever used on our farm and IMHO (for us) all we'll ever need.

I narrowed my search to Deere, New Holland and MF. The criteria were this: basic no frills tractor, major name brand with established dealer support, 40+ PTO hp and enough ground clearance to straddle windrows when the time came to round bale. BTW with the lower PTO hp, we would be making 4x4 round bales vs something larger. The three models in the running were the New Holland Workmaster 55, the MF 2615 and the John Deere 5055d. The New Holland was the most expensive and to my surprise the Deere (with cash rebate) was the lowest. I especially liked the MF 2615, but wasn't comfortable long term with the Simpson diesel - though I'm sure it is a fine engine and probably a Perkins clone. The MF also didn't have the ground clearance I wanted either. The NH Workmaster 55 carried a high price tag, the engine is a Shubaru (sp?) and I believe it to be a fine engine, but when I googled parts for both it and the Simpson, very little came back - a concern for me. The dealer told me it was hard to get the Workmaster 55 (which I believe), but just never made much of an effort to take my purchase serious and given the price was much higher, I ruled out the Workmaster.

The JD 5055d is the tractor I bought. I truly went at this purchase color blind - looking for the best bang for the buck that would fit my buying needs. BTW - I like Kubota and would have considered them, but on another purchase, my local dealer found it necessary to be disrespectful and I didn't want to reward that. There are Kioti and Mahandra dealers around and I think they are fine tractors - certainly better pricing in a lot of cases, but the dealers in my neck of the woods for these brands come and go. No real "off shelf" parts support and no long history with the brand or experienced mechanics for their specific brand - IMHO.

Another factor was the coming Tier 4 final emissions. I wanted no part of that. We tend to work on all of our equipment and simple and reliable was a must. The 5055d has Deere's 3029 Tier 2 engine and I know from experience with generators, that engine is a great one. Parts availability are terrific too. The Deere 5055d has mechanical breaks (I think the 'e' models have hydraulically actuated brakes and there have been some problems - google them), the 5055d's tranny speeds lined-up nicely with those of my MF50, so I know what ground speed works well with my baler, mowers, etc and can pretty much duplicate with the JD. The 'e' model JD's have a 9F/3R tranny whereas my tranny is an 8F/4R tranny - it is great. The PTO on the 5055d is independent, but mechanically actuated via a lever. I think many independent PTO's are electronically actuated, but with the mechanical actuation on my 5055d, I can feather 'on' the PTO - which is a nice feature when working older equipment. The JD has great ground clearance and a commanding view from the seat. Not that I would ever sell the tractor, but the JD likely has the higher resale value long term.

The Deere 50XXe and some 'd' tractors have had issues, but the basic design goes back to around 1992 - you can google them. I am hopeful that the simplicity of my tractor, 8F/4R tranny, two wheel drive, mechanical breaks and independent PTO will uncomplicate issues down the road, be it service/repair or just reliability.

This really counts for nothing other than "touch and feel". Though the JD is built in India, it is built in a John Deere factory - so I felt I was getting a "real" John Deere, not something rebadged. Not that - that would have made a difference in my buying decision, be it a NH, JD or MF, it's just a nice "after the fact" feeling. Another feeling I got when baling hay with this tractor this summer was looking out over the green hood and onto the field. I couldn't help think how JD is one of the few tractor makes that hasn't been bought, sold or renamed. I felt like I had just bought a new JD, was using it on an old field, not unlike some farmer would have 50 or so years ago - kind of a cool warm and fuzzy.

So to answer your question - I'd go utility. NH, MF, Kubota or JD would probably get the job done - I just happened to buy the John Deere.

Good luck with your purchase,

Bill

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . Another question, however, and its regarding the 3-point hitches on the above brands. Our pasture has a lot of undulation, with very few nice flat stretches, so we really need whatever rotary cutter we go with to follow the ground as best as is possible. Who makes the best rear 3-point for the job?

For undulating ground, the best way to follow the contours is with a pull-type cutter. They are not nearly as popular as 3ph cutters, but they do have several advantages including (i) they follow the ground better than a 3ph mounted cutter, (ii) they are easier to hook up and unhook, (iii) you can use the articulation between the cutter and the tractor to cut closer around trees and other objects than you can with a 3ph cutter, and (iv) you don't have to have any counter-weight on the front of the tractor since you're not lifting anything with your 3 point lift.

Now, all the people who have only ever used a 3ph mounted cutter will tell you how much easier it is to back up and maneuver with one of them. It is easier, but if you can back up a trailer you can back up a pull-type cutter (or other implement).