New Gravel Drive failed

[2manyrocks]

Lots of good suggestions here so far. When you were preparing the site, did you happen to notice any difference in the soil layers? Just wondering if you stripped off a firmer level of soil and got down to a layer of muck that holds water?

 

[dawoodwa]

Haven't read all the posts but here is how I do it.....First, strip topsoil, put in about 4" of large crushed stone, I use #4's, use your ripper to plow this stone in then compact the drive. A rubber tired vehicle works good if you have enough weight, otherwise a compactor may be needed. follow this with smaller stone, I use #57"s, and compact this layer, then top with road base, here is is refered to as GAB or crusher run stone and compact this.

 

[JB4310]

I'm not familiar with all these geographical sensitive names for materials, but 6 inches deep should be deep enough for light vehicle traffic, we usually start with 4 inches of compacted large process, which is a mix of 1.25 stone and smaller stone with dust or "screenings" then top 2 inches of compacted small process which is 3/4 stone and dust, these are typical road base materials around here. once compacted this becomes extremely stable regardless of under drainage, never seen single size uniform aggregate of any size used in road/driveway construction.

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

here's a good article on geotextile........i think i'm sold on it....i hate buying gravel.......i hate the thought, moreso, buying it for the rest of my life....especially on 1/4mi+ driveway..

Using Geotextile Fabric in Livestock Operations, AEX-304-97

 

[Ford850]

Yes, all good ideas. If the driveway is now mush, I also think that is because the frost might be down below the mud not allowing the water to drain. There isn't a problem in the spring and summer because there is no frost in the ground to trap the water. As he stated, before the addition of the gravel they could drive on it without a problem, I wonder if that was also during similar thaw conditions?

I think Elmo is the only one who gets it. It's been a good drive through the dry and wet times, until recently. We've had some cold temps followed by a warm period. There is a frost layer 3-4 inches down, and no matter how many drain tiles, geotex, etc, the moisture is trapped above the frost. Mine does the same thing, and gets pretty mushy for several days during early and late winter. Even on a hills where no water stands. The moisture is pushed up as the frost thaws. The rest of the year is it rock solid.

 

[ray66v]

I think Elmo is the only one who gets it. It's been a good drive through the dry and wet times, until recently. We've had some cold temps followed by a warm period. There is a frost layer 3-4 inches down, and no matter how many drain tiles, geotex, etc, the moisture is trapped above the frost. Mine does the same thing, and gets pretty mushy for several days during early and late winter. Even on a hills where no water stands. The moisture is pushed up as the frost thaws. The rest of the year is it rock solid.

Except, those of us who use the fabric and don't have this problem, also have frost. I get the same weather he does, a day later.

 

[atgreene]

You will still get frost mud with geotex. I build roads and driveways for a living in an area that routinely get 5-6' of frost. Anytime you drop below freezing the ground will freeze, geotex or no geotex. When the temps come up the top melts first making mud down as deep as the frost layer or geotex. More gravel will help, but there will always be a time period where that mud layer is present during a freeze/thaw cycle.

As for the road itself, the center should be crowned to pitch water off from it and the ditches should allow water to run, not hold standing water.

But what do I know.

 

[dirtworksequip]

atgreene, so whats you opinion on the use of fabric? Is it worth the extra cost and labor?

Sincerely, Dirt

 

[atgreene]

I do like to use fabric (geotex or similar, prefer woven, but fabric will work) but it mainly is used here to cover soft spots (cross swamps/low areas). I have found that 4" minus boney crushed gravel (heavy on the crushed, light on the gravel) works almost as well. Depends on how bad the mud area is and how much water is in the soil.

If there is standing water next to the road, chances are you will need fabric unless your final grade is substantially higher than the water table. I have a couple pits that their gravel is so boney it will support a loaded wheeler with no issues. Other places it has more fines in it, great for gradeing, sucks in the mud.

Definitely nice to have geotex, but if you can afford gravel you can accomplish the same thing with boney gravel AND drainage. Down fall is you may have to build it up higher than practical.

The other caution is that you need good cover over the fabric. Seen it placed with minimal cover and promptly torn-up with a grader or excavator later in the project (nice when they fail to mention it's there and then later want a culvert installed that should have been installed when the road was built......). A lot of do-it-yourselfers will place it in their driveway to save on the cost of gravel, and never build it up enough for proper cover.

 

[ray66v]

The other caution is that you need good cover over the fabric. Seen it placed with minimal cover and promptly torn-up with a grader or excavator

Were not usually building roads, so I can simply order single axle loads, tailgate the stone, wet it, compact it, repeat. The job goes fast, and eliminates any chance of tearing.

 

[atgreene]

Good point, good compaction and doing it in lifts of 6" or so is ideal.

 

[ray66v]

Good point, good compaction and doing it in lifts of 6" or so is ideal.

6" Your still thinking kinda big for us! I like to try for 3-4" and hope to end up with 2", after compacting it.

 

[atgreene]

Wow, I generally shoot for 3- 8" lifts of base gravel, then 4-6" of surface. Over fabric I'd shoot for maybe 24" (compacted down to 18-24").

 

[dynasim]

I think Ray66v has it pegged. It looks to me like, when you trenched in for the road, you made a water collection system for the hill side. During the summer, the water was able to run through the rocks. Now, with freezing, the water collects, which causes more pain by softening the underlying dirt.

You may want to ditch around the edge, particularly the upper edge, and divert runoff water from getting to the road. Alternatively, raise the road 6 inches, and cap it with a water shedding fill. I personally don't think that there is anything you can do if you don't relieve the water pressure. There is a reason that almost roads have a water diversion system.

Chris

There are parts of my back yard, (all clay fill), that I can, and do, drive trucks on, in the summer. The ground is very dry then, and has no problem supporting the weight. Those same areas, in the spring and fall, I cannot drive anything heavier than my cheapo Craftsman mower over them, without rutting it up. What is the difference? The ground has softened, because of an accumulation of moisture. Once it is saturated, it does not have any ability to support weight.

Each year, I add some drain tile to a different area. The tile keeps the water from saturating the ground, the problem is solved. Once the ground has dried out, it's able to accept large amounts of moisture, without turning in to muck.

If your ground became saturated because of the area being dug out for the gravel, and the gravel was able to hold water, it could have caused your problem.

I don't think that is the only problem, based on the photo. You simply do not have enough stone there, to hold enough water, to cause this much saturation.

I suspect that runoff, from the surrounding land, goes through this area, wetting it to the point of saturation. This can happen, even on a slope.

If you determine that is the case, you need to divert the water away from the drive area, with a swail, or collect it, with drain tile, or catch basins, or possibly even all three.

No matter what kind of drive you put there, it will not be stable, year round, if the saturation issue is not addressed.

 

[ray66v]

Wow, I generally shoot for 3- 8" lifts of base gravel, then 4-6" of surface. Over fabric I'd shoot for maybe 24" (compacted down to 18-24").

Since I don't have a nice vibratory roller, or a dozer, I have found keeping the lifts thin, allows much better, faster compaction.

I am sure you know were not going anywhere near 2' of stone.

Yes, I know its not a "real" drive. But on a budget, its enough for us.

 

[atgreene]

As long as it works for you, that's all that matters.