New Holland loader

[radman1]

I have a 2000 Case-ih DX29 (deluxe version with HST) with 2 rear remotes. My case ih dealer has 4 different sizes of blue NH loaders with the old numbering system. I can't quite remember the numbers but they were 12?, 14?, 16? etc. What size would fit my tractor? These loaders came from CNH testing facility and are discounted to dealers to sell or sold for scrap. They don't have the SS type attachment for the buckets but instead pin on. The loaders look like they were never used but are weathered. Have hoses but no control valve. (I could run them off the rear hydraulic outlets.) They have loader brackets with them but dealer doesn't know what tractor they would fit. I think I can get one these very cheap, but taking some risk on if they would fit on the DX29 and I assume have no warranty. (For the NH crowd, I may have to repaint it!)

 

[jinman]

There is one big problem. If your tractor is indeed a 2000, it was never designed to have the curved arm 14LA or LX114 loader. There were changes to the front axle and mounting to allow the 14LA to be installed on tractors after 2004 (I believe this is the correct date.). That discussion has been posted several times in this forum since the introduction of the curved-arm loaders for the Class II tractors.

I did not realize there was a Case DX29 in 2000. Are you sure your tractor is that old? I thought the Case version didn't come out until 2003 or 2004. Hmm. . . I'm a little confused and more than a little suspicious of your tractor's year model.

Also, I would not even consider trying to use the rear remotes to run a loader. If you can't afford the Case joystick valve, then you should be able to mount a 3rd-party valve from Surplus Center or other hydraulic supplier. I think your tractor already has the priority valve installed and all it would take is to plumb in the 2-spool joystick valve and piping.

 

[MikePA]

If it's really a 2000, you would need the 7308 loader.

 

[dgl24087]

According to TractorData.com - information on all makes and models of tractors, the DX29 started manufacture in 2001. TractorData is generally reliable, but does contain errors.

 

[radman1]

Sorry guys, I am guessing a little on the age. The tractor is on the farm (90 miles away) and my memory maybe slipping. Might be a 2001 or 2002. I will get a firm date tomorrow and call the dealer who has it on record. I am trying to keep the cost of the loader low. I will probably be selling this tractor in the next 6 months. Many guys want a loader and if I can get a very inexpensive loader for it, I may consider this as an option. Any specs for the 14LA loader lift capacity? The 14LA will fit the TC29D. Any other sizes it will fit?
I am reluctant to go with the typical joystick due to cost through parts dept and I may never recover the expense. Maybe the overall concept of using the NH loader is more work than worth?

 

[jinman]

In your case, I think I'd go to the dealer with a camera and take detailed pictures of a tractor with a LX114 loader. Look closely at the mounting brackets and take pictures and measurements. With those in hand, make the comparison to your tractor.

If you are planning on selling the tractor, I'd sure plan on putting a normal loader control valve on it. If I saw a tractor that had been rigged to work with remotes, I think I'd be less likely to buy that tractor.

The 14LA/LX114 has a lift capacity around 1400 lb. The 7308 it replaced has a lift capacity of about 1100 lb.

MikePA: The 7308 is New Hollands number for the Class II loader. Was that Case's number on the DX models? I can't remember a Case without a curved arm loader. That's one of the reasons I don't think Case was selling the DX models in 2000. I can't recall ever seeing a DX with a 7308-style loader.

 

[MikePA]

That's one of the reasons I don't think Case was selling the DX models in 2000. I can't recall ever seeing a DX with a 7308-style loader.

I agree. I was going by the OPs statement his tractor was a 2000 model.

I bought my TC25D in Oct, 2001 and it took the 7308 and the curved loaders came out shortly afterwards, in 2002, if I recall correctly. That's when the Case tractors came out which would make the Case 29DX at least a 2002 model.

I also agree with your comment re: the joystick. If I saw a tractor with a jerry rigged loader installation, I'd keep shopping.

 

[whitetiger]

How in the world is a loader plugged in the rear remotes " jury rigged"?
The joy stick is an option the same as rear remotes. You can add remotes to the rear or midmount or both if you want, but they do the same thing. Some people do not want to install both and plug the loader into the rear or plug their dump wagon and log splitter into the midmount. The loader will not care where it is plugged into.

 

[jinman]

How in the world is a loader plugged in the rear remotes " jury rigged"?
The joy stick is an option the same as rear remotes.

If what you say is true, why don't manufacturers just skip that "unneeded joystick" and use rear remotes? Perhaps a better term than "jerry-rigged" is to call it a kludge, made of components originally intended for some other use.

If you buy a new tractor with a loader, it comes with a joystick. If you buy a new tractor with remotes, it does not come with a loader. Yes, they are both options, but they are unrelated except that they both use hydraulic power. I cannot imagine using a loader by manipulating two remote levers. Have yoiu ever done that? I have operated two control loaders, but they were conveniently located where I could operate both levers with one hand. I've never seen remotes like that.

 

[MikePA]

How in the world is a loader plugged in the rear remotes " jury rigged"?

It's "jury rigged" because it's not the standard way NH installs loaders on tractors.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The joystick is an option when you buy the loader. I have used a TN75 with 32LA loader that was ran off rear remotes using the levers as it didn't have the joystick. The old tractors all ran off two lever systems (my old Ford 4000 had it mounted under the seat so it was a ackward system). So since the advent of the loader they have been run off standard remotes it is just recently that they started going to joysticks but it isn't standard, most dealers just figure it in on their price now though as it is a easier system.

And Jim, whitetiger didn't say the joystick was "unneeded", just that not having one doesn't mean the tractor is held together with baling wire and duct tape (jury rigged).

And Mike, I am fairly certain whitetiger knows the standard way New Holland sets up tractors and New Holland doesn't install the loaders, the dealers do (like Whitetiger works for). New Holland gives the dealers the option of buying a joystick to work the loader but it isn't standard.

 

[radman1]

After checking with dealer, my DX29 is a 2002 model. The 4 mounting holes are 6"x4" and I checked the NH 14LA loader mounts today and they are the same spacing. (Am I correct in saying the 14LA is the model for the DX29?)The paint on the loader is not the greatest and peeling on some edges. The loader and bucket have some scratches but otherwise in good shape. Haven't yet discussed price. Any suggestions. There is no warranty and no joystick at this time. No quick attach bucket and the paint is not great. I am guessing $750.
I just bought a large ag tractor grapple bucket and HD pallet forks for my Case ih maxuum 125 pro. The grapple bucket fits perfectly on the tractor and has the newer global carrier attachment that is now being used on all ag loaders. Paid $1500 and never been used but is sun faded. The list price on these is over $3000 plus shipping. The pallet forks cost $400 but need a little modification but are more HD than use on skid steers.

I will agree that a joystick is the way to go but I wouldn't be surprised if cost is over $1000 through parts. Disadvantage of rear remotes is the constant movement from one control to the other and can't do 2 movements at one time. I have run lots of older ag tractor that had 2-3 lever spool controls on the loader. It isn't horrible. If I didn't have rear remotes, it would be definitely joystick.

By the way, he also had a 16LA and two 18LA loaders that appeared to have never been used. Also had a 12LA and used 7308.

 

[whitetiger]

It's "jury rigged" because it's not the standard way NH installs loaders on tractors.

If the joystick is an option for a loader, what is the standard way?
I have installed probably 200 loaders in my 30 years of working for MF, Ford, White and NH. More than half have not had a joystick. Loaders have been around for a **** of a lot longer than joysticks.
Later this week I an installing a loader on a new 4000 series tractor and they do not want the optional joystick. It will be plumbed the standard way, plugged into tbe rear remotes.

 

[whitetiger]

If what you say is true, why don't manufacturers just skip that "unneeded joystick" and use rear remotes? Perhaps a better term than "jerry-rigged" is to call it a kludge, made of components originally intended for some other use.

If you buy a new tractor with a loader, it comes with a joystick. If you buy a new tractor with remotes, it does not come with a loader. Yes, they are both options, but they are unrelated except that they both use hydraulic power. I cannot imagine using a loader by manipulating two remote levers. Have yoiu ever done that? I have operated two control loaders, but they were conveniently located where I could operate both levers with one hand. I've never seen remotes like that.

I looked in the NH price and data book today, joystick is still in the Option coloumn.
I did not know there were rules for what is and what is not to be plugged into the rear remotes.

 

[MikePA]

I know NH dealers install the loaders and not the factory. Poor phrasing on my part. If half of the loaders whitetiger has installed have not had joysticks, it also means half of them had them. I wonder what the pecentage goes up to if only compact tractors are considered?

Regardless what the percentage is, it's irrelevant. If I was looking at a compact tractor with a loader and it didn't have a joystick, I would consider it jerry rigged, which is what I said in my original post. Since I'm the buyer, my opinion is the only one that matters, hence my advice to the OP. Having the salesperson, technician or owner tell me "the joystick was always an option" wouldn't matter. No sale.

 

[Eagleview]

Regardless of what they fit , if they are selling them for scrap price i would buy them all . "Never look a gift horse in the mouth" . They would adapt to many types of similar sized tractors $$$$$$$$.

 

[jinman]

Robert and Whitetiger, I’m really surprised at you. You are both “standing in left field and throwing curve balls.” MIkePA said nothing whatsoever about baling wire and duct tape. Those are your words. I also never said that Whitetiger said anything about a joystick being unneeded. I used quotes around the phrase “unneeded joystick” for the same reason I would if I said you guys are talking “smack.” It means that phrase is slang or a borrowed phrase that is not my own.

I went back and read MikePA’s comment about the joystick. He said nothing about the joystick not being an option. He said it was the standard way New Holland installs loaders. Of course it’s an option. The whole loader is an option. The loader bucket is an option too. Would you disagree if I said the standard way of installing a loader is to have a loader bucket? If I go to a NH dealer who has 25 new tractors with loaders on his lot, how many of those tractors will not have a joystick? If I’m a dealer and order a “loader-ready” tractor from New Holland, what do I get? Do I get a tractor with rear remotes? Of course not, the standard way a loader-ready tractor comes configured is with a joystick and the loader posts installed from the factory.

Whitetiger, you may install a loader onto a 4000 series tractor without a joystick. It will work with rear remotes. Nobody has said it will not work. However, when you look in the loader operator’s manual, will it describe how to use the rear remotes with the loader or will it describe how to use a joystick to control the loader? I feel silly even asking this question.

The whole reason for this discussion was to make a recommendation to Radman1 about installing a loader. I’m pretty sure both MikePA and I want to give him the best advice based on the fact that he said he would probably sell the tractor. We both feel the loader with a joystick would enhance the tractor, while using the rear remotes might actually lessen the attractiveness of the tractor to a buyer. You are welcome to disagree. I could sure be wrong, but I don’t think we are wrong about our description of this configuration on this DX29. Telling him anything different makes me feel like a used car salesman who is trying to sell a car without a title.

BTW: This is a fun discussion and I'm not one to shrink from a good debate. Please be assured that I respect both of your opinions and hope I have not been offensive.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Jim, there are no hard feelings but I felt like you and Mike were incorrect. You were the first person in this thread I saw refer to the Joystick as "unneeded" (your term). Whitetiger said that these loaders can be installed either with or without the joystick option. There standard way is without the joystick as the basic loader doesn't come with it. Same with the bucket, the loader doesn't come with one because not everyone needs the bucket or the same size or type bucket. Why make everyone pay for options they don't need or want, if I only need a loader for moving pallets then why would I want a bucket as a standard item?

And a "loader-ready" tractor is no different then buying the XLT model F-150 over the base XL. You get certain options as standard features then. In this case the joystick is one of those features.

Basically we are all saying the same thing but using different words. While I agree that the joystick is a better way to run the loader and is what you will find on most modern tractors now it isn't "standard". And to say not having one makes the tractor "jerry-rigged or jury-rigged" doesn't make sense to me. Just what does "jerry-rigged" mean? To "me" it means cobbled together any way possible. Just because a loader doesn't have the joystick option doesn't mean it is cobbled together (though putting a blue loader on a red tractor is getting close).

If I知 a dealer and order a 斗oader-ready tractor from New Holland, what do I get? Do I get a tractor with rear remotes?

And just for fun, when I bought my TN65 it was a loader ready tractor and it came with a joystick that ran the "rear-remotes" Mid mount remotes were not available back then so the joystick just replaces the two standard levers to operate the rear-remotes.

This was a fun discussion and if I was in radman's situation I would just forget about this since he plans on selling the tractor anyway. It seems like a headache trying to make sure his tractor is compatable with this loader and even if it is any prospective buyer will look at the red Case-IH tractor with a blue New Holland loader and think it is cobbled together regardless to if it has a joystick or not.

 

[RickB]

It's "jury rigged" because it's not the standard way NH installs loaders on tractors.

Mike, you are absolutely correct. New Holland routinely FACTORY installs midship joystick valves and loader mounts on most models of their compacts. Of course, these components can still be dealer installed as well, and must be on a few models. For any compact tractor's loader attachment NOT to be operated by a joystick would be far more the exception than the norm in the last decade, as every member participating in this thread knows full well. 'Jury-rigged' is probably a little harsh, though. One reason the joystick is an option rather than standard with the loader is that a joystick can be ordered and used with a front plow or snowblower. Each of these attachments can use two hydraulic functions, and the joystick ergonomics are as natural for them as for a loader.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Mike, you are absolutely correct. New Holland routinely FACTORY installs midship joystick valves and loader mounts on most models of their compacts. Of course, these components can still be dealer installed as well, and must be on a few models. For any compact tractor's loader attachment NOT to be operated by a joystick would be far more the exception than the norm in the last decade, as every member participating in this thread knows full well. 'Jury-rigged' is probably a little harsh, though. One reason the joystick is an option rather than standard with the loader is that a joystick can be ordered and used with a front plow or snowblower. Each of these attachments can use two hydraulic functions, and the joystick ergonomics are as natural for them as for a loader.

Rick, aren't the models that come with the joystick already on ordered as loader ready tractors? If so what other options are installed to make these tractors loader ready? Is it just the remotes with the joystick instead of two levers? Do the loader mounts come on also?