"new" idea on trenching device

[Redneck in training]

did i mention rocks ??

and did i mention water level 2.5 inches below surface

And did i mention that augers and backhoes dont work in summer when this clay and rock mix become concrete hard?

yep


But the trenches need to be made, so no wining but creative thinking.

Clay slices, like butter.
The trench will fill immediately with water, so that should help make it less sticking to the tube/tray/implement.

A bit off topic but as illustration:

Digging is very problematic in our region and mostly ends up in too big machines and trenches for the application just because small machinery does not manage it. Nobody wants to give fix quotes as bad spots are common and easily double working hours.

I had 3 small backhoes / mini-cranes going back home with a FAILED stamp on them when digging the foundations for our garage. Finally a big JCB dug them and trippled the concrete amount. Bomb proof foundation but $$$$ again.

We still have manual diggers for water wells and septics around. They come with their caravan and dig for a month or more by hand. Saw them doing it: diameter of 6ft: Every day between 1 and 2 feet max, 3 people a couple of shovels and pick-axes. The benefit is a hole that is made to measure, with mechanical digging you mostly end up with something half size too big and you need to fill the gap with stabilizing materials which you have to buy. Using the clay would only give a lot of air pockets and unstable area.

I put my fences 3 years ago and still the auger drilled holes do not enclose the posts. pouring concrete in the holes is the only way to make it a tight fit. (smaller holes and knocking does not work with wooden posts, you just split the head of the posts)

So i want to tryu alternative ways of digging as all the classic ones (backhoe, auger, plow) are not woring here in the size of a small tractor implement.

In order preventing sticking of the clay to the tube, cut a ring out of the tube several cm long and then weld it back but at sharper digging angle to the tube. Weld it such a way that the bottom back of the ring will be somewhat inside the tube. The clay will be hard pressed against the cutting ring but then it will just fall over its back edge to the tube. My thinking is that if sufficiently wet it could be easier pushed up and out by advancing material from the front of the tube. My soil condition is very similar to yours. We have about 2" of top soil with sticky clay under it. But our water table is very deep so the clay is wet only after sustained rain. Let as know what was the final sucessfull solution.
By the way my mother was born not too far from your place in Sirk-Zeleznik and grew up in Plavecky Ctvrtok. I still have relatives in Malacky.

 

[mwb]

I built a "simple" trencher like your pic and it did not work worth a **** and that was in good soil. If you are going to try the tube or channel you will need to add a long tooth to the front to pull the trencher down (no down pressure on 3pt); otherwise it will just plug up and skid allong the surface. Similar to a plow share.

Can you pull a single or double furrow plow through it?

I think the ditch witch type would be the best. If your soil is that bad then maybe it would be easier to move?

 

[CurlyDave]

Take a look at this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/99242-boxblade-road-gutter-maintenance.html

I think you can do this with a box blade if you tilt it properly.

 

[BrentD]

Since you're digging in an area that is already going to have water in it anyway, could you possibly add some sort of high-pressure water jet inside the bottom of the tube to force the clay out the back?

 

[J_J]

tatra805

If you could buy or build these, they should work for you, if you have a fel, or something with forks,

You could pull a sub soiler through the ares and dig out the loose dirt/clay, or whatever.

That rock trencher in the last picture, should be able to cut the trench, then you have to clean it out.

 

[Eagleview]

A rotary drain cutter is what you need , easy to build and effective . A round heavy disc with rotary hoe blades driven off the PTO , i would make it swinging so you can set whatever offset you like . (left click on expanded image so you can read it)

 

[tatra805]

some nice ideas offered here...
Now i am afraid i have to sound stubborn but i hope i can explain why,


Spade type implements mounted on the fel can work but will not as i am too close to the fence. If i dont have enough offset i need to go ful depth in 1 pass. Knowing the clay i am very afraid (certain) that a spade offset outside the bucket will last only a couple of meters before torsion will kill it.


Rotary type of diggers might work a bit in summer on the dry parts. In my case the ground stays wet all year round. Attempting anything rotative just sticks the whole thing together. Believe me i tried with a walk behind rotovator and the only result was a rotating clay drum within a couple of feet.

Types of sub-soilers or knives/coulters just leave a cut line in the ground. The only disruption that happens is when it catches a rock an pushes it to the surface but if not you get a line in the ground.

Plowing in our region is only done on those fields that have a good top soil. Most of the fields are only rotovated or subsoiled at 5'' level. I come from belgium, google for deep plowing movies and you will see i am used to some other plowing habits but here it is simply not possible. 70HP tractors are pulling 1 knive plows, nothing more is possible and everybody avoids it as a 9ft stretch is what you can plow before the clay sticks and pushes the plow up.

So why am i naive to think a tube would work? no idea, didnt see anybody try it here and i liked the slicing principle.

So where are you clay-diggers. How do harvest your clay and which toold do you use ?

 

[Eagleview]

A mud bucket on an mini excavator is your only option then .

 

[ccdck20hst]

With conditions as difficult as you have described using a backhoe or trencher sounds like it will not work from what you have stated. How about using a jackhammer with a large wide chisel on it to define the lines of the trench on either side and loosen up the rocks and clay for removal by hand? You could try removing small blocks of clay cutting perpendicular to the edges as you go - sure it will take time but what is the laternative? Perhaps starting on the low end will allow any water to drain as you go. Just a thought for this difficult situation.

 

[EddieWalker]

Here is the situation: i want to put drainage around and in our horse paddock. Need to make about 600ft of trench about 1.5ft deep, 1ft wide.

Received and estimate of 2000$ from a mini-backhoe operator to do the job.

$2,000 sounds pretty steep for a one day project. At 600 feet and only 1.5 ft deep by 1 foot wide, it's not even very much dirt.

I'd call some other contractors. Both mini excavators and backhoe operators. At the high end, $100 an hour, it should still be under $800, and probably closer to $500. I'd be very suprised if a half competent operator couldn't do 100 feet an hour easily.

If you cannot find anybody, what does it cost to rent a mini ex for the weekend?

By the time you build your contraption, fine tune it, adjust it, rebuild it and all that, you'll be ahead in time and money hiring it out. It's very hard to buy or build a special tool or implement for what you can hire or rent it for.

Eddie