Tractor News New Kubota M7 Series

[ZR900MAN]

All this high tech stuff can become very difficult to keep running. Makes me wonder if we might see a strong market for 10 to 30 year old refurbished tractors at say 50% the cost of a new tractor.

 

[TomSeller]

All this high tech stuff can become very difficult to keep running. Makes me wonder if we might see a strong market for 10 to 30 year old refurbished tractors at say 50% the cost of a new tractor.

good question.

 

[ZR900MAN]

Have thought it many times TomSeller...Not sure that all the new expensive dodads are needed by smaller farmers. We all do not live on 6000 acre farms in Illinois. A lot of food is produced by 500 and 1000 acre farms that might find a refurbished TW35 at 60k a good alternative to a new 150k tractor.

 

[DT86]

Slide on over to tractorhouse and count how many Deere 4440's are listed >$30k. Perfect example of 30 year old iron bringing 50-60%+ of what they were new. That also makes them about 40%+ of what a 6130d would cost. They are well taken care of at that kind of money but not refurbished (mechanically at least).

The time has already come where older, simpler tractors are more desirable for a lot of customers, so long as they are buying for more than a tax write off. The prices of these used tractors already reflect that.

 

[rScotty]

All this high tech stuff can become very difficult to keep running. Makes me wonder if we might see a strong market for 10 to 30 year old refurbished tractors at say 50% the cost of a new tractor.

I like the idea. I've enjoyed mechanical things all my life, and agree that what makes your idea work is that the older machines were made to be refurbished. In fact, I seem to remember that "fix, rebuild, and refurbish" businesses in the US were doing pretty well 30 years ago....right up until the new manufacturing philosophy of non-rebuildable everything from microwaves to cell phones to tractors began to be popular.

But can we do that again? I don't know about where you live, but around us there are very few shops that fix anything anymore. It's true that old machines can be rebuilt even if new ones cannot, but we no longer have that whole side of the infrastructure from spare parts right on through education. Do we have a supply of new mechanics available? There don't seem to be many kids interested in learning how to fix things. And who can blame them? It's not part of their world.
Around here, only the tractor dealers maintain a decent mechanical department - there are still a few mechanics working there, but even their shop is becoming more and more devoted to bolting on accessories.

Here's a personal example of what I mean:
We could sure use some sort of thumb mounted on our vintage John Deere 310 backhoe. Twenty years ago there were a dozen small shops within range who would be interested in doing that job. Now there are none. Today I'm limited to the dealer's shop - and he is limited to using the factory kit costing $15K or so......plus shop time. That's not only expensive, but it's a whole lot less interesting.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I had the opportunity to sit down with my dealer and Kubota rep. ....SNIP,....... The Kubota Area Service Rep couldn't be there but he did give his assurance to the dealer that if I have any further problem it will be handled. I have had 2 issues with this tractor and both have been handled above my expectations so now that I know why I don't get an oil separator kit (my tractor has a different separator than the M5200) I can now go play in our muddy spring thaw.

Hey! mHarry...please don't leave us hanging. Last week you were all ready to block off the oil separator system, saying:

"So if I don't hear anything from kubota, my plan is to replace the hose leading to the separator with a long hose I can route to the bottom of the engine and exit below. Then I will plug off the separator. I have emailed Kubota Customer Service and they said they are referring it to my dealer for an answer."

And this week you are happy to use the same machine in in the same conditions and singing that,

"I can now go play in our muddy spring thaw" ??

I'm not criticizing, in fact I'm glad you're happy. But what did you learn from the Service Rep that made you comfortable using the tractor? Warranty? And why doesn't your tractor get the oil separator kit? Whatever happened, knowing may help the rest of us as well.
rScotty

 

[ZR900MAN]

I get you rscotty....seems like a business opportunity for someone....if a new tractor cost 100k and a 30 year old tractor of the same size could be refurbished with new tires, clutch,brakes, electronics, seats, paint.....etc...and sell for 50k...seems like a market could develope

 

[TomSeller]

I think it is nice to have a new tractor but also to have an older one that piles up the hours raking, brush hogging, hauling round bales, whatever. Your newest tractor retains its value with lower hours and good paint, but is available when you need it for what it is good at, precision FEL work, etc.

 

[MHarryE]

Kubota has treated me very well on 3 problems even eating the 300 mile transportation cost that is clearly stated not responsible for shipping. They okayed replacing the DPF after the turbo failure even though a couple regens or sending out to one of the many DPF cleaners (like my local Cat dealer) for cleaning rather than replacement. They are not trying to squeeze me financially and getting to talk to the Kubota rep - convinced me they will accept any problem as their problem. Knowing my background at Cat working primarily on engine validation for my last 7 years after I said I was sick of spending my time babysitting staff, I wanted to end my career working with customers. So I have had experience from that side through Tier 2, Tier 3, and establishing targets from the customer side for Tier 4. I have a pretty good feel for when I am being fed a line vs understanding customer concerns. I really can't discuss agreements between all of us. I was given access to the separator kits now available - none close to fitting my tractor. I was given permission to try adapting one to mine knowing my familiarity with the system but after looking at it I am satisfied to go as is. Summary - my job at Cat was the contact the Kubota reps I talked to would go to when nobody else was able to give an answer that would satisfy the customer, and in this case from one meeting they and I built rapport with which I am comfortable. Hope this helps explain my side. As an aside, the Caterpillar C3.8 is a Kubota engine similar to the one used in the M100GX and M110GX and I still donate my Caterpillar contacts which doesn't hurt. But I don't believe that this in any way influences how I as a Kubota customer am treated.

I do not know how Kubota validates their design before production. In my last field validation program I had machines running from the heat of the Persian Gulf to the gold of Northern Minnesota; from coal mines in South Africa to the mountains of Utah; from South Africa where customers followed a rigorous maintenance schedule to Texas where maintenance was an unknown term. If they test primarily in Japan they do not see the extremes. I did not have any of my test fleet in Japan because based on my earlier testing, they treat their equipment well and don't have the weather extremes of the rest of the world. However their customer expectations are brutal.

 

[rScotty]

I was given access to the separator kits now available - none close to fitting my tractor. I was given permission to try adapting one to mine knowing my familiarity with the system but after looking at it I am satisfied to go as is. Summary - my job at Cat was the contact the Kubota reps I talked to would go to when nobody else was able to give an answer that would satisfy the customer, and in this case from one meeting they and I built rapport with which I am comfortable. Hope this helps explain my side. As an aside, the Caterpillar C3.8 is a Kubota engine similar to the one used in the M100GX and M110GX and I still donate my Caterpillar contacts which doesn't hurt.

Very much interesting; thanks for the explanation. No...I agree that what you are seeing is all too early in the engineering process to be generally useful for the rest of us. There's bound to be some things that are useful in that mix of Tier I-IV, DPF, DEF, turbos, and separators, but just how to apply them doesn't sound like it is figured out yet.

In my career, I started with a mix of customer service and technology and with about the same 7 years to go decided to spend most of the time mentoring younger engineers on how to apply their education to get deeper into the technology being used. The company makes large and small scientific instruments - some are big enough to walk around in. A good R&D guy needs to be a mix of science and hands-on ability. Hopefully equally comfortable with welding torches and calculators.

Thanks for the update. Didn't know that Cat used a Kubota engine. Is that common? Also, last year I got a chance to compare some large Cat and Komatsu Loaders. Nice machines...both of them.
rScotty