Tractor News New Kubota M7 Series

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: New "M7" Series

Diesel particulate filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sixdogs]

Re: New "M7" Series

I asked this question. The engine division is building engines using a cataylic converter rather than a DPF. The tractor division does not want to use them because that design requires the engine to run at a much higher temperature and thus will reduce its lifespan. No free lunch. You will see DPF-less tractors, and DPF-less Kubota enignes, but at this point not no DPF-less Kubota tractors.

So is Kubota going in a good direction?

 

[Paystar]

Re: New "M7" Series

From my experience with class 8 trucks......yes. The use of def fluid increases performance and reliability big time over mass egr and dpf only.

Thanks for that info Messick's. When I saw the press release on the global site about those new engines with no dpf I was wondering if that was going to migrate into the compact tractors, like it is starting to with skid steers and CTL's.

 

[5030]

Re: New "M7" Series

gotta remember, its a big market. Kubota's eyes maybe on other parts of the world (like Europe) where the incumbent companies are not as entrenched and Kvereland\Vicon are more household names. I'm sure we'll do just fine with them here, but the USA corn belt may not be their sole focus.

You think? I don't. I believe Kubota is targeting the European market with a Fendt clone. It won't play here too well as an ag unit. For one, every farmer I know (I'm a farmer too), is dead against Tier 4 final engines and for now will keep running pre-tier 4 or interm engines as long as possible.

I own 2 large frame Kubota's (I get my consumables from you BTW.) and have no intention of trading down to a Tier 4 final engine until the bugs are worked out (as evidienced by JD laying off 600 employees due to lack of sales of Tier 4 compliant engines.

I just had NH want to demo a new tractor at my farm and I told them 'If it uses DEF, don't bother'.

Secondly, it's an orange painted Challenger, made at that factory (Challenger/MF). Nothing new execpt the paint, the badging and the DEF tank along with a DPF cannister and EGR, all detrimental to long life.

So no, IMO, it's a bad move for Kubota at least here in the States. Kubota is out of it's league here. Here Kubota's are praised for simplicity, ease of maintenance and longevity and this new tractor (not really a new tractor but a recycled european design) is none of that.

You won't find one on my ground, ever. If thats the future of Kubota in the Ag tractor arena, I'll be changing brands.

 

[MHarryE]

Re: New "M7" Series

Muhammad - I see Kubota announced the new M5 and M6 series to be available in North America later this year. Anything major different other than meeting Tier 4 final? I have a M135GX and wondered if its replacement will have DEF plus the DPF. Not that I should really be thinking about it because I won't trade until mine is depreciated out in 5 more years.

 

[Grateful11]

Re: New "M7" Series

"as evidienced by JD laying off 600 employees due to lack of sales of Tier 4 compliant engines."

The layoffs at Deere had more to do with the price of corn and soybeans than the Tier 4 engines themselves. When cash flow slows to a snails pace because people paid too much for farmland and corn is bringing in a 1/3rd what it was, the new Combine and real large frame tractors, series 7 and 8, sells tumble then yes layoffs are inevitable.

 

[5030]

Re: New "M7" Series

"as evidienced by JD laying off 600 employees due to lack of sales of Tier 4 compliant engines."

The layoffs at Deere had more to do with the price of corn and soybeans than the Tier 4 engines themselves. When cash flow slows to a snails pace because people paid too much for farmland and corn is bringing in a 1/3rd what it was, the new Combine and real large frame tractors, series 7 and 8, sells tumble then yes layoffs are inevitable.

Havent we discussed this elsewhere?......lol

All compliant Tier 4 final engines will have DEF, DPF and EGR working hand-in hand to make your life miserable. Bet China won't have any.

 

[MHarryE]

Re: New "M7" Series

Yes, its been discussed before, but we still have to see someone having problems with Tier 4 interim or final posting here. When somebody said that the current Kubota's require parked regeneration I asked what I am doing wrong because I have one of the first M135GXs sold in the USA and have never had to stop for a regen, nor have any of my 2 neighbors who got theirs after mine.

Its interesting that somebody blames JD sales slowdown on DPF because they had DPFs on much of their larger tractor and combine line (can't begin to list all the others) for 3 years, 2 of which had all time record sales, but now that the price of corn and soybeans are below the cost of production it is the DPF and DEF that caused the decline. In addition nothing mentioned about congress not continuing Section 179 depreciation which has a major affect on equipment purchases.

As for China, they planned to be at an equivalent to Tier 4 interim by now but their fuel suppliers are having difficulty supplying fuel below 350 ppm sulfur and until they get their fuel supply more consistent, they can't implement. So its not that the intent isn't there - they have a much more ancient technology infrastructure to climb from.

 

[5030]

Re: New "M7" Series

Far as DEF, EGR and DPF is concerned, you don't need to look much farther than Class 8 diesel trucks to see the issues related to and as far as the previous statement that they are more efficient, thats pure BS. I know, I work at a truck dealership and they (Tier 4 final on road diesel engines) are problematic, inefficient and failure prone.

Same applies to tractors that share the same components from the same manufacturers.

Here is a scenario, you tell me what you'd prefer, a ECM controlled Tier 4 compliant engine or a mechanically injected pre Tier 3 engine. I think the 'educated' choice is clear.....

You only have one tractor a Tier 4 final compliant Kubota (for the sake of a brand only), it's a Sunday and you are 3/4 of the way done round bailing first cut alfalfa and th NWS says there is a 60% chance of heavy rain that evening. The sky is turning darker with storm clouds and all of a sudden your check engine light comes on. The tractor derates in power (thats exactly what occurs when the ECM detects an error code has been registered in the computer memory). You are now developing much less PTO power than the round bailer requires to make a bale and rain is eminent. Keep in mind, it's Sunday afternoon so no dealer is open, not that it matters because the only way for the dealer to diagnose the fault code is to plug into the Serial Bus and download the fault code into his computer, then he can diagnose the issue and make necessary repairs.... Problem is, it's Sunday, it's about to rain and you are in the middle of a field...... not pretty

Think that won't happen? Better think again because it will and more than once. Most of our emissions related problems come in on a wrecker, why? Bcause the engines derate and somtimes completely shut down and many times, all that has occured is a sensor failure. A 20 dollar part made someone have a very bad day.....

So tell me, do you want a Tier 4 final tractor or a pre Tier 4 unit, preferably pre Tier 3? I know what I want. I want to see those visible particulates come out the exhaust stack when I give it fuel........:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[MHarryE]

Far as DEF, EGR and DPF is concerned, you don't need to look much farther than Class 8 diesel trucks to see the issues related to and as far as the previous statement that they are more efficient, thats pure BS. I know, I work at a truck dealership and they (Tier 4 final on road diesel engines) are problematic, inefficient and failure prone. Same applies to tractors that share the same components from the same manufacturers. Here is a scenario, you tell me what you'd prefer, a ECM controlled Tier 4 compliant engine or a mechanically injected pre Tier 3 engine. I think the 'educated' choice is clear..... You only have one tractor a Tier 4 final compliant Kubota (for the sake of a brand only), it's a Sunday and you are 3/4 of the way done round bailing first cut alfalfa and th NWS says there is a 60% chance of heavy rain that evening. The sky is turning darker with storm clouds and all of a sudden your check engine light comes on. The tractor derates in power (thats exactly what occurs when the ECM detects an error code has been registered in the computer memory). You are now developing much less PTO power than the round bailer requires to make a bale and rain is eminent. Keep in mind, it's Sunday afternoon so no dealer is open, not that it matters because the only way for the dealer to diagnose the fault code is to plug into the Serial Bus and download the fault code into his computer, then he can diagnose the issue and make necessary repairs.... Problem is, it's Sunday, it's about to rain and you are in the middle of a field...... not pretty Think that won't happen? Better think again because it will and more than once. Most of our emissions related problems come in on a wrecker, why? Bcause the engines derate and somtimes completely shut down and many times, all that has occured is a sensor failure. A 20 dollar part made someone have a very bad day..... So tell me, do you want a Tier 4 final tractor or a pre Tier 4 unit, preferably pre Tier 3? I know what I want. I want to see those visible particulates come out the exhaust stack when I give it fuel........:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

The answer for me, based on experience, is the Tier 4 final. Please look at the posts on here where owners are fighting to resolve mechanical injection pump problems and compare to the numbers having problem with their Tier 4 final. And your specific problem - getting the crop in before the rain hits. Twice this season I was the only one out there still putting up hay as the clouds were boiling in while my brother-in-law was exchanging tractors because of another fuel system problem. And we are not talking trucks on this off-highway forum.

Oh, and by the way my experience is not based solely on 1 Tier4 interim (actually I have 2 Tier4 interim). In the job from which I retired I had my own fleet of machines from no controls all the way through Tier 4 final. Mechanical controlled pumps by far the worst reliability and worst fuel economy. 26 HP/liter, noisy, really sucked. Tier 4 final 40HP/liter, 25% improved fuel economy. It's like in the old gasoline engine days with carburetors that over fuel so as not to burn pistons, required frequent maintenance to keep tuned. Unburned fuel contaminating oil. Fuel economy - you couldn't call it economy in those days. That is where diesels are working from starting 11 years ago when the first emissions regulations were implemented. Sure there have been missteps along the way. But today I visited my uncle who was a heavy equipment operator most of his working career. Dying of bladder cancer. One of the reasons we have the emissions regulations now is because so compiling the statistics on guys like him and finding people operating in a high diesel exhaust environment have a higher risk of developing certain cancers, bladder cancer being one. Did it contribute to my uncle's cancer? No way to ever prove it beyond doubt but the statistics indicate it. I live in a mining area. It is depressing going to the largest hospital in our area where the ex-miners are waiting for their chemo and radiation therapy for their cancers. How much because people like to see cancer causing black soot coming out of their exhaust?