New log book rules

[Gary_in_Indiana]

Yours is an optomistic viewpoint. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I'm not sure that you're going to see any major wage increases across the board as a result of this. I'm not saying I don't want to see drivers earning more money, I just don't think it's going to be a huge boon.

A lot of very, very good people have gotten out of the business from the owners and managers to the drivers. I could put half a dozen more good drivers to work Monday if I had them. I can't get good people and I'd rather let business go than put on people I'm not comfortable putting into a truck I own. The used class 8 truck market has gotten a lot stronger in the last six months and I've liquidated four trucks recently and will liquidate another half dozen in the next two weeks. I hate to put myself into a position of having to buy later in a rising or high market to replace these, but such are the decision every owner faces. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Most of the good people I know who got out of the industry in the past five years don't want to come back. In the case of owner operator's who had their credit ruined by a repossession, they really can't get back in. It's been tough in this industry for everyone. I think the people who fared best top to bottom were company drivers for captive fleets. Everyone else had to deal with the marketplace. It's not over, either.

One of the largest carriers around is based here and the place looks like a ghost town in many parts. They recently approached me about renting service area space as small as a single bay in their truck shop. They are that desperate to create revenue at that facility. With just the rental of a single bay they offered to include unlimited office space and ulimited paved, lighted parking. When they walked me through the one office building to show me the space I was amazed at how empty and desolate it was in there. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif A year ago it was busy. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

As to the 70 hour weeks and low wages, add another 30 hours, having your own capital at risk and getting phone calls at all hours of the day, night weekends and holidays from all over the country forcing you to drop whatever you're doing (like a family dinner or holiday gathering with friends and family) and you'll begin to understand what it's like to own and operate a small trucking company in this market. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ScottAR]

Just because I'm a curious sort, What is Top lining?

 

[RedDog]

I for one am glad to see some changes.

I drive for a LTL company and we have to many drivers now that "extend" their time by showing breaks that they did not take. At least this system will eliminate that. It wouldn't bother me if they would have dropped it to 12 hours a day instead of 14.


I remember when this first came out about the new proposed rule changes. My terminal manager came around asking us to email our reps not to do it. They would even email them for us at work! He ask me, and I said NO!! He went on to say guys would not be making as much money with the new system, but I told him the only ones that are not are the ones that are cheating on their log now!!

In the end at our terminal we had a bunch of guys that did email even though they didn't agree, but kinda felt pressured into it. I didn't!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

It definitely needs changed.

RedDog <font color="orange"> Kioti DK65 </font>

 

[5030]

Gary:

First off, Many years ago, before de-regulation of the trucking industry, I owned 4 outfits myself. That was back when you didn't run a truck for less than $1.50 per mile and fuel was about 50 cents per gallon.

After de-regulation, I decided to get out of the small fleet owner scenario and got into brokering freight. I had my own agency, warehousing space and kept 1 outfit, a Freightliner (back when Freightliner was a truck and not a plastic turd), a Talbert 40 ton detachable with a flip axle and a Trailmobile P-91 TT heavy hauler. When I had an oversize move or a heavy permit load, I moved it myself. Then companies like Trism came in and cut the rates to zip. They even went as far as offering shippers a per-mile rate. I got rid of the equipment and concentrated on the agency end. I represented Artim Transportation and Pacer Motor Freight. I ran Bud Artims' eastern division of company trucks and dispatched his o'o's. A personal tragedy came about and I lost the agency as well as 2 houses, and all my personal worth.

Being the resourceful guy I am, I started over. I had plenty of experience in specialized freight and heavy moves and entered into an agreement with G.E. to move their diesel electric locomotives from their repair shop in Cleveland, all over the country. Another Talbert and a nice cab over KW with a 1693 TA Cat with a 13 double over came my way. I modified the Talbert with a set of tracks and a Braden 60 ton winch and I winched the loco's right up on the trailer, chained down, got the permits and went on my way. I made a lot of money, but along came the "specialized" carriers and screwed me again.

At that point, I decided that working for someone else would be better, no payments, license fees, fuel tax permits, etc. I have been a company driver since then.

Over the years I watched the business from afar. The cut rate carriers hammering away at the once good rates and trying to undercut each other. The quality of drivers going down the tubes, safety and courtesy being shoved aside for the almighty shrinking buck.

What was once the hero of the highway, the American Trucker is now the villain of the highway. The trucking industry, especially outfits like Hunt, Schneider and the rest of the door slammers have no one to blame but themselves.

You might call steel haulers greasy, dirty or bums, but we are the last of the professional drivers. We extend each other courtesy and share the road and offer help whenever possible. I don't find that attitude in any large company with a recruitment program like Hunt or the others.

As far as I am concerned, the only other "professional" drivers are company drivers like UPS, Yellow-Roadway, Holland Motor Freight or the other union based carriers. You know why they are courteous and safety minded?? Because they, like us, make an equitable wage, aren't fresh out of driving school and have years and miles under our belts.

I have a CB in my truck and it seems every time I turn it on, I hear an idiot with an echo box slinging profanity on the airwaves. If I look around, I don't usually see any trucks out there except door slammers, the o'o types. I'd rather listen to the stereo.

Fleet owners, whether small fleets or large are their own worst enemies. The keep chipping away at what has become a small crumb (revenue). Due to the fact that I work for a private fleet, wholly owned by the manufacturing company that I work for, I am immune to the nibbling of the rates, except when a customer demands that we reduce our haul rate to match a common carrier. To keep the customer happy, we will haul for a reduced rate in that instance.

The reason I am optimistic that rates will increase, is that there is going to be a shortage of "Qualified" drivers. I don't mean "diesel dummies" that went to school to learn to fill out a log and are a danger on the road, we have too many of them now, I mean qualified, experienced all weather drivers. The real professionals. To retain those drivers, companies will have to increase rates to hold those drivers. In the first quarter of next year, the industry is going to go from drivers needing jobs to employers needing "good" drivers, just like the housing market went from a sellers market to a buyers market.

Professional drivers are going to demand a higher wage and compensation package and any company that wants to stay in the market is going to have to step up the ante. Sure, there will be some hanger ons, cut rate outfits, but the cost of doing business with low rate drivers versus insurance claims will eat them up.

The fall out from all this will be increased cost to the consumer, in goods and services. That is going to come at a bad time in the economy picture.

The o'o is going to benefit from this too. His revenue is going to increase as well. The downside is that the 11-14 HOS will preclude him from beating his log book up to deliver a load.

The real benefactors from the 11-14 HOS ruling will be line-haul drivers as well as the general public on the highways. The 11-14 HOS ruling will go a long way to removing the fatigue factor that contributes to many accidents involving fatigued drivers.

 

[_RaT_]

Interesting comments by all. I learned a few things. My knowledge of the trucking industry is zip so it's always good to get information from folks who are in it. Is it my imagination or are there far more tucks on the road then before. I live off Interstate 80 near Aubrun, CA. and I don't ever recall seeing so many trucks. There are times they out number the cars, not often, but a few times.

 

[lamarbur]

5030
I would hope that you don't categorize all OO's as "door slammers" I started in computers in early 74 when we got 3.50 a mile and up. Of course the machines were huge then and we had a phenominally high overhead cost to cover. If someone wanted an IBM 360 balancing on a flag pole, then whatever it took for me to get the 360 on that pole and balanced, is what the costs was. In fact, 200K gross a year was common for me. 23,000 was the best of those early years in actual pay. It was still better than all you steel haulers, garbage, refers' and anything else out there at the time.. Regulation ruled until Jimmy Carter designed deregulation. In a sense, he was right, To eliminate gateway's and foolish requirements. Instead, people like JB Hunt, Tristate, Sneider was really bad and others not only stopped the gateways, they chopped the regulated fees 50% right from the get go. Do you remember crayola? Was the best steel flatbed hauler in the country until Sneider bought them, then ruined them. Anyway, we WERE safe drivers with VERY SAFE equipment. I suppose when one hauls 50 million in a custom computer system, one better have safe ewquipment. I sold my last rig in January of 91. wouldn't do it for the world now.

 

[Bird]

Daryl, of course I know very little about the trucking business; just what one brother who owned a Peterbilt and a Kenworth (drove the Pete and leased out the KW) in Alaska nearly 30 years ago, and the other brother who drove a Volvo reefer for a little over a year recently have told me. But having spent about 6 years full time RVing ('89 to '94) in addition to what little traveling I still do, two observations that have really stood out:

(1) Schneider is the onlytrucking company whose trucks I have found consistently driving within the legal speed limits. I don't personally know why, but was once told it was because of a fuel economy bonus the drivers can earn, and

(2) I used to buy a local newspaper everywhere we went, and I don't think I've ever seen a newspaper that didn't have classified ads for companies wanting truck drivers.

 

[5030]

RaT:

There would probably be more trucks than cars in the early morning as they are all trying to get to their unloading appointments. If they get there late or there are a lot of trucks waiting to unload, they wait a long time. The new HOS 11-14 rules will cause a driver to run out of time if they are made to wait, either unloading or loading. It's going to either cause the shippers and consignees to start doing their jobs like they should have been doing all along, or the goods on the trailers aren't going to get delivered. Hence, no food on your table for instance.

The delivery of foodstuffs to grocery warehouses is a complicated process that the grocery warehouses have made complicated by their own volition. I could go on for pages about the pros and cons, however, it will be suffice to say that they better get their heads out of their a** and start doing it right.

 

[Durbob]

I know trucking companies have bonuses if you average so many miles per gallon, but a lot of that is just not letting your truck idle all night. Some trucking companies trucks are governed to only go so fast , so they can't speed if they wanted to. They claim their insurance is cheaper that way. The next thing will be the black boxes on the trucks. It keeps track of all the data. I disgree with the post that the new regulations will help with driver fatique all that much. Most drivers who fall asleep and wreck have cheated their logs and are way over. And they have proven most accidents between big trucks and cars are mostly the cars fault, so 40,000 more trucks on the road for cars to deal with can't be a good thing.
Finding drivers isn't gonna be easy unless they do improve the pay.

 

[5030]

lamarbur:

I am NOT trying to categorize at all. You know it's hard to state and perceive a point on this forum without raising some hair!!

On the contrary, I was an o'o myself and hauled heavy equipment. It's just like everyday, yesterday included, that I am on the road, a van trailer with a tractor with a multitude of chicken lights passes me doing 10 over the limit with another unit about 15 feet behind him, talking on an echo box radio about their sexual exploits or being a "radio Rambo" and slinging racial slurs. That crap is what makes us look like "villains".

There is nothing worse than a tractor trailer tailgating a car at 70 plus because the driver is late for a drop because he spent too much time in the rest area "pickle park", or sleeping in the truck stop with a "lot lizard".

The world that I work in is VERY different from what the public perceives. I would like nothing better than to educate the public about trucking in the United States. That's what I am trying to do in this thread. Sometimes, it may go a little a stray, however, the 11-14 HOS rule will go a long way toward improving the general atmosphere of the trucking industry, especially concerning the independent operator.

Maybe you realize, maybe you don't, but the public perceives truckers as enemies, hogs of the road, etc. What they don't realize is that while they are DRIVING TO THEIR JOBS IN FACTORIES, ETC., WE ARE DRIVING AS OUR JOB TO BRING THEM THE MATERIALS NEEDED TO PERFORM THEIR JOBS

It would be an ideal situation if we all got along, that will never happen. The public and the trucker Do need to find some common ground though. The rule changes will go a long way to cleaning up the trucking industry and reduce accidents. It's not an ideal answer, changes aren't, usually, but it's a start.

I have posted on occasion, pictures of my truck on this forum. What I do is only germane to Michigan, Ohio and parts of Indiana. Multi axle units like I drive were created in part due to the automotive industry demand for large and heavy quantities of materials to be delivered on one load. I hear every day about how my truck is tearing up the road. On the contrary, the per-square-inch of tire loading is LESS than what a car exerts on the pavement.

A good example of weight is that a normal 5 axle unit is allowed 34K-34K and 12K for a total of 80K gross. My 7 axle unit is allowed 18K-18K-18K-18K-32K and 16 on the steer for a total of 120K gross. The key here is that a 5 axle unit is exerting 34K on a set of tandems, directly on the road surface, while my outfit only exerts 18K for EACH axle and that's spread over a 10'1" spacing. A close 8 axle trailer is only allowed 13K for each axle, substantially less than a 5 axle unit which is by far, the most common type of unit on the road today. Axle spacings as well as tire width versus tire loading all come under the Federal Bridge Law.

I always hear drivers coming into our state asking why we have all those axles, how do we stop and how on earth we get around a corner. Actually, we have brakes on each axle and can stop much better than a common 5 axle unit. The axles lift in groups to negotiate a corner and as far as loading one, you better know what you are doing, that's why the other guys, the "door slammers" so to speak are doing just that.