New Mechanical Mini Gauges Installed On My ISKI G-174 Ampmeter Problem ?

[ampa]

The oil/temp gauges are workin' fine,but the alternator amp meter is not showin' that it is chargin' when I turn on the headlights or use the starter it shows a negitive discharge so that part of it works okay, but when the engine is runnin' the ampmeter pointer is stationary (zero charge) I have this meter connected to the battery side of the selonoid to the negitive side of the ampmeter the possitive is connected to the positive + side of the ampmeter from here it is connected to the ignition switch, I installed a new kubota ignition switch and done away with the original two that were installed, this new keyed ignition switch has 5 terminals one of the 5 is for assesories, the old starter switch only had 4 terminals, the old idiot lites for oil/temp/amps were not all workin' the only one that did work was the amplite and it came on with the key activated and went out after the engine was runnin' so therefore it was chargin' before I changed everything to these mini guages, I'm wonderin' if maybe I shorted or burnt the dioids on the altornator or maybe the voltage regulator, how do I go about checkin' these two items, I have a volt meter I use on my van by connectin' the leads to the battery leads the negitive and the possitive and it reads out in volts which if chargin' reads about 14 volts with the van engine runnin' but on this tractor it reads around 12 volts, even if this readin' shows me the alternator is not chargin' how would I know if the voltage regulator is indeed not functioning, or maybe the alternator is the problem, would like to know how to check both before sendin' for a new alternator or regulator, Thanks in advance for all answers to my problem, take care AMPA........

 

[ampa]

Re: New Mechanical Mini Gauges Installed On My ISEKI G-174 Ampmeter Problem ?

Oh sorry,. I forgot to mention I did not cut off the the old leads from the idiot lites, I put heat shrink tube over them, except for one that is white with a red stripe, from the wiring diagram in my repair book it seems to run from the voltage regulator and to me seems to be only a ground wire as is the next one beside it which connects into the wiring harness under the dash,from the voltage regulator, this white one is just hanging loose till I find out where it was originally connected to, maybe it was a ground wire for the idiot lites for which there were 3 and only these 3 are now wrapped up with heatshrink and tucked up under the dash, I should have took a pic of these wires before I removed them, but if someone can tell me where this wire connects to, it very well may be the reason my system is not chargin' seein it is connected to the voltage regulator, ......AMPA

 

[kmarchin]

take a VOM meter and make sure it is charging.

I think you may have put an amp meter in place of voltage light.

You would need to replace with a voltage guage.

 

[CurlyDave]

Actually, you are far better off with a voltmeter than an ammeter.

1. No high current behind the dash.

2. ~13.6 Volts when engine is running = system working, less = system not working.

3.A voltmeter can use 16 or 18 gauge wire with no problem.

If you really did install an ammeter, how large are the wires you used? They need to be rated for the full charging amperage of the alternator, which is a lot bigger than most people use. Another question is what is the size of the ammeter? If it isn't rated for high enough current, you are buying trouble.

 

[ampa]

Replaced Amp/Oil/Temp with gauges also replaced ignition switch/alt not charging

I replaced key ignition switch which on my ISEKI G-174 had a starter switch which was activated by a key switch for the assessories as well...now I have a red and white wire hanging loose with 3 wires that the idiot lights were connected to that I can't remember where it was connected...on the wiring diagram it shows it to be connected to the #30 terminal of the all in one new Kubota key start switch...but when I connect this white with a red stripe wire...it acts as a ground or should I say it sparks.....this wire is connected to the voltage regulator and shown as IG...on the wiring diagram....I've checked with a volt meter and the alternator is shown as not charging....I think that maybe I burned out the diodes on the alternator or maybe burned out something on the regulator by messing around with this one red and white wire that I have no clue to where and how it was connected originaly....any help to this issue will be gratefully appreciated.....AL

 

[ampa]

I have not had any comments or suggestions on a past question.....

I'm almost ready to give up and just use my small battery charger whenever the battery goes dead from a none chargin' system on this ISEKI G-174 compact tractor....surely these tractors are no different from other makes....this was not a problem till I changed out the idiot lamps oil/temp/amp as the only one that lit up when I turned on the key....at the time this was the only lamp that worked... and it always went out after the engine started.... so I assume it was charging at that time...when I installed these three mini mechanical guages... at the same time I also changed out the ignition switch from where I had two switches to one....I'm more concerned with the voltage regulator bein' the problem right now...I left all the wires from the dumb idiot lamps hangin' free for now....I'm thinkin' of removin' them from the wiring harness to cut down on the extra mess of wires that I now have under the dash and also creat less cofussion ... for now there are four wires not connected to anything down from under the dash.... a black wire from the oil sender switch..... one from the temp and one from the alternator/amp lamp...now this 4th wire from the other three is ....yellow with a reddish orange stripe...now I will read off from the diagram pictured in my ISEKI G-174 repair manuel these wires that are connected to and from the voltage regulator in this order.......W/R which is this fourth wire hangin' with the other three wires that are not connected to anything so therefore starting from the voltage regulator this "W/R" is marked as "IGN"....okay the next wire is "Y/W" and the letter "L" and the next one is "B" (black I assume) and is marked with the letter "E" the next is a "Y" and is marked with the letter "N" the next is a "W" marked with the letter "A" the last one is a "W/B" and is marked with the letter "F" which to me I'm thinkin' refers to the Field of the alternator....so just maybe connecting the first wire the white with the reddish orange stripe to my accesories on the new ignition switch which does not have an ignition terminal like old one I changed out... I'm now thinkin' maybe this reddish striped wire sends DC power to the voltage regulator when the key is on... it controls the set of points in the regulator to keep the battery in a charged up condition....this is just my thinkin. as I've tried everything else to get this tractor back up to par and charge like it did before I messed with it......I really need some expert advice/help.....I'm not able to transport this tractor to a shop that will probley charge me an arm and a leg to fix the problem that I maybe created for myself.... I've mentioned everything I've done since it stopped charging... I'm takin' the full blame for screwin' it up.....thanks in advance.......AMPA

 

[Tread70]

Re: I have not had any comments or suggestions on a past question.....

Well I am new here but lets see if this will help ya out. I attached the wiring diagram but here is the link to the pdf so you can make sure it is the correct one but if it isn't it should get you close.

http://sonnys_bolens.tripod.com/iseki/TX2140-2160-OM.pdf

 

[SPYDERLK]

Re: I have not had any comments or suggestions on a past question.....

Im not familiar with your system, but 1st put that charge lamp back in. Systems need B+ presented to L terminal thru a "resistor" to trigger the vreg. If that doesnt work look elsewhere, but leave the lamp in until youre sure its not part of it.
larry

 

[Bird]

I have not had any comments or suggestions on a past question.....

Yes, but you should not start a new thread each time you ask. Instead, just "Reply" to yourself to continue a thread. It's much simpler to keep an entire discussion on the same topic together in one place. So I've merged three different threads to make this one.

 

[ampa]

Okay Bird I appoligize...but I did not get a response to my first question for which I needed at least someone to come to my rescue...as I'm new to this forum....I did in fact meet Cowboy which to me seems like a very honest type or should I say a very helpful person like yourself....if I didn't need help on this issue on this Japan made compact tractor then I would have went back to PER forum the guys that play with their toy tractors with Briggs and Stratton single and twin engines....goodbye talk to you guys later when you realize that I'm just another person needin" information to my problem.....AMPA

 

[banjodunn]

G'day AMPA you will not get any charge out of this system until you put the idiot light back in the system as it needs power to flow through this light down to the alt where it energizes the windings as the alt starts to charge it puts 12v back up this wire and turns the light off ie you have 12v + on both sides of the light it will not come on as the power cannot travel to earth. Hook up your light as it was originally and all should be well hope this helps



Jon

 

[CCWKen]

Jon is right. The alternator needs to have the lamp circuit to excite or trigger the output current. Many times there's room to Tee oil pressure and use a different coolant/oil temp sensor location. It's not a bad idea to keep idiot lights with gauges as the lights attract more attention. My stationary compressor as the ignition wired through temp and oil pressure senders as well as having gauges. A problem that would turn on an idiot light will kill the engine.

 

[ampa]

Hello Tread 70...I do not know where you got that info on my tractor but the wiring diagram is exactly the one in my repair manuel I think this manuel would be the operating manuel that I should have recieved with this used tractor when I bought it....but I only recieved the repair manuel which don't tell me too much .....Okay you other guys study this wirin' diagram and maybe tell me what I've screwed up...cause I know for a fact it was chargin' before I messed it up or should I say messed with it....and guys I really appreciate your interest and input on helpin'me get this tractor of mine runnin' like before....and believe me no more...advice from so called friends on improvin' somethin' that don't need improvin'............AMPA

 

[ampa]

Yes guys I was gonna' keep the amp lite at first but like I mentioned I changed out the original ignition switch and forget how it was originaly wired,maybe this is why I have two wires instead of one like the oil and temp had, ....one of the lamps had two wires and I think it was the amp lite and it probely was connected to the original keyed ignition switch, I now have only the one new keyswitch that has only one terminal for accessories so I gather I'll have to connect that W/R wire to this to activate the old idiot amp light once again, this be the only way I could connect it as the old ignition switch is long gone, I threw it in the garbage months ago, in the wiring diagram it shows this W/R connected to the ignition side of the original switch, where it became a live/hot wire when the key was activated, I've got the heavy wire (10 gauge) connected to the neg side of this new amp meter and the positive to the #30 terminal of this new ignition switch and it does show a negitive draw when I turn on the accessories(lights etc) or the pre heat to the glow plugs or activate the starter, so that part is working okay, plus the oil and temp gauges are workin' fine, the oil pressure is real good and the cooling system is fine since I had the rad tested and flushed out, it will need recoring in the near future as the rad shop told me it had quite a build up of that white stuff that to me looks like calcium from usin' water with lots of minerals in it, my only goal right now is gettin' this thing to charge again, and then I'll be relaxed, and carry on with other minor issues I have with this tractor, I do appreciate all this info about reconnecting the amp lite, take care, AMPA

 

[CCWKen]

The charging indicator is #7 in the diagram. It's wiring is Yellow/White. You will also have to have the White/Red wire. Connect them as shown in the diagram. (Both go to the ignition side of the switch.) Get a piggy-back tap from the auto parts if you have to but they must be connected.

 

[ampa]

Hi just posting back to say thanks to all you guys for the much needed info... yesterday I rewired the idiot lamp back into the system, and now the lamp lites when I turn on the new key switch ignition to accesories as it has no ignition terminal, the lamp goes out soon as the engine is started up and running ,like it use to when this ISEKI tractor had the original two switch system and no mechanical gauges , I connected the lamp in series onto the one and only accessory(A/C) terminal, the new switch has a # 30 terminal for which I have the heavy gauge wire from the solinoid connected to this #30 terminal shown in the wiring diagram for the old preheat (glow plugs) and starter switch, it does show this W/R wire connected to this one and only #30 terminal ,but one problem accures, when I connected this white with the red stripe wire,seems it creats a dead short which would have drained the battery dead in a short while, plus the green colored coil on the back of the voltage regulator gets real hot, so I decieded to connect this W/R wire to the accessories now it only seems to charge when I leave the key turned onto accesories, if I turn the key to the off position it seems to quit charging although the engine seems to bog down a bit with the key turned onto accesories to which I have the lights and everything else connected, with the key in the off position the engine runs free, like no bogging down, but I gather this bogging down has to do with showin' that the alternator is chargin', I checked the chargin' system usin' my VOM meter yesterday after rewiring the system, and it reads out around 14 volts or so with the key in the on position, I now gather it's workin, like before, just a little concerned about that coil on the back of the regulator, could this be shorted out from messin' around with it or is this normal, I'd like if possible some feed back on this hot coil issue, if the regulator sounds like it is defective I could replace it with a new one, to save problems on down the road, anyhow guys at least the alternator seems to be doin' it's job,. so once again to all you guys who helped me sort out this chargin' problem and saved me from changing out a perfectly good alternator...... a whole bunch of thank you's.....take care AMPA

 

[ampa]

Hope I don't have to start a new post, I need to know if my regulator is functioning correctly, I'll be goin' to a Case International Dealer in the next couple of days., so if I need a new voltage regulator then would be the time to order it, I find that this dealer gets parts in very quickly from CASE, I orderd a exhaust gasket 2 days later it was in,I still have'nt picked it up as yet, I'm waitin for some parts to come in for my Douglas Finish Mower that I orderd at least two weeks ago, still on back order so they tell me, Thanks in advance.........AMPA

 

[CCWKen]

Hope I don't have to start a new post, I need to know if my regulator is functioning correctly,

It sounds to me like your regulator is working. The "coil" on the bottom of the regulator is a ballast and it's normal for it to get warm. But the regulator needs to be bolted down and grounded. I'm not following your problem with the switch. The diagram for this model is quite simple. Did you replace the switch with the same kind or something you're just trying to make work?

Don't run the engine with the W/R wire disconnected. You'll cause the alternator to overload itself. It will keep trying to increase current output until it burns itself out. That's probably why it bogs down when you turn the ignition off. Your wiring is not correct. Don't run the engine!

Sit down and draw a diagram of the way you have it wired now and compare it to the diagram posted. The W/R wire is your charge lead from the alternator. It will spark when the engine is running--It's charging the battery. With the key off, it's disconnected from the battery.

What type of cut-off is on this machine that you can run the engine with the key off?

 

[ampa]

This tractor is a diesel 3 cyl. and don't need an ignition switch like a gas engine.... the headlights etc ran off the old key switch for which I could use a screw driver to activate the pre heat (glow plugs plus the starter) on this tractor.....and this tractor sits outside where kids could start it....so now it can only be started with this new key switch I picked up from a KUBOTA dealer....and the #30 (HOT) terminal has a 10 gauge wire from the selonoid to this #30 terminal...at first I connected the W/R to this terminal as well like in the wiring diagram.. but if left on this terminal it was live all the time and would have killed the battery or burned out the wiring and maybe causing a fire.... so I used the accessory terminal as my ignition ...so it can be disconnected by turning off the switch to remove the key, I have installed two toggle switches to turn on and off the headlights/ back spot lamp etc...the old switch controlled these....but then again with this switch in the off position the alternator to my knowledge this W/R which runs to the regulator would be disconnected from the system.....anyhow it now charges if I leave the key in the on position I only needed to know if the rectivefier on the voltage regulator runs hot and is normal...or is this regulator defective and needs to be replaced....I need this charging system in perfect working order for the coming winter months as this is the tractor I use for snow ploughing.....Ive since added a finish mower and now it will be an all season machine....so I'll be selling my small lawn tractor...no sense having two machines when one can do everything......anyhow Ken thanks for your input....take care....AMPA