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[kenmac]

Humm.., No answer . /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[ProdaddyTX]

Welcome John, good post. Can you answer my question ? Why does the repair shop / your supplier in vietnam roll back/ reset the H.R. meters on these tractors ? Is the prospective buyer aware that the HR. meters have been rolled back / reset on these tractors ?
thanks

Hi Kenmac, I've asked that question before. Based on the amount of work they do on them, the man hours they put into them, and the fact (as mentioned elsewhere here) that original hours shown could be off by x1000, x2000, x3000 etc., they feel like it's the right and justified thing to do...that it better represents the finished product....which is pretty darn consistent in my experience. I don't really agree with their position, and I wish they did show original hours, but I've not had any luck with that argument. We were hesitant, and a little uncomfortable with the reset clocks when we started...but the more experience we've had with tractors from other sources, and the more machines we've seen come over with original hours... the more it's supported everything our supplier told us about their product. The couple Vietnamese guys I know are honestly perplexed by the fuss, and discouraged (perhaps becoming calloused) that they are always seen as liars...but they sell a lot of tractors and so I guess have decided that the marketplace is telling them what to do.... I'm really kind of theorizing here. Also, they don't have any of the Used Car, rolling back the clock associations that we do here....just a difference between cultures I guess. I suspect, also, that it has something to do with government and customs rules over there too...tax rates maybe...I'm really speculating now....
Nobody has ever tried to pitch these tractors to me as having "8 original hours" or whatever. They're used tractors, with alot of repair work, and reset clocks...boom.... as honest as can be. But I have heard those stories from customers about people trying to sell YM2000's etc. as "20 original hours", or built in 2002, etc. I find that just as repugnant as the rest of you. I would never buy anything from a person lying to me about something like that... and by the same token I would never try to pass that bull off on a customer. So to answer your final question, Yes our customer's know they're buying a used tractor (EVERYTIME), and No, we NEVER EVER have portrayed a machine with reset clock as showing original hours. We tell our customers the truth, explain our opinions to them, and give them a choice of what kind of tractor they want to buy.... knowing that we've gone through them all thoroughly ourselves, and can stand behind the machines with confidence, regardless of the route they took to get to our warehouse.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

Welcome John, good post. Can you answer my question ? Why does the repair shop / your supplier in vietnam roll back/ reset the H.R. meters on these tractors ? Is the prospective buyer aware that the HR. meters have been rolled back / reset on these tractors ?
thanks

Hi Kenmac, as you can imagine, I've asked that question before myself. Based on the amount of work they do on them, the man hours they put into them, and the fact (as mentioned elsewhere here) that original hours shown could be off by x1000, x2000, x3000 etc., they feel like it's the right and justified thing to do...that it better represents the finished product....which is pretty darn consistent in my experience. I don't really agree with their position, and I wish they did show original hours, but I've not had any luck with that argument. We were hesitant, and a little uncomfortable with the reset clocks when we started...but the more experience we've had with tractors from other sources, and the more machines we've seen come over with original hours... the more it's supported everything our supplier told us about their product. The couple Vietnamese guys I know are honestly perplexed by the fuss, and discouraged (perhaps becoming calloused) that they are always seen as liars...but they sell a lot of tractors and so I guess have decided that the marketplace is telling them what to do.... I'm really kind of theorizing here. Also, they don't have any of the Used Car, rolling back the clock, negative associations that we do here....just a difference between cultures I guess. I suspect, also, that it has something to do with government and customs rules over there too...tax rates maybe...I'm really speculating now....
Nobody has ever tried to pitch these tractors to me as having "8 original hours" or whatever. They're used tractors, with alot of repair work, new paint, and reset clocks...boom.... as honest as can be. But I have heard those stories from customers about people trying to sell YM2000's etc. as "20 original hours", or built in 2002, etc. I find that just as repugnant as the rest of you. I would never buy anything from a person lying to me about something like that... and by the same token I would never try to pass that bull off on a customer. So to answer your final question, Yes our customer's know they're buying a used tractor (EVERYTIME), and No, we NEVER EVER have portrayed a machine with reset clock as showing original hours. We tell our customers the truth, explain our opinions to them, and give them a choice of what kind of tractor they want to buy.... knowing that we've gone through them all thoroughly ourselves, and can stand behind the machines with confidence, regardless of the route they took to get to our warehouse.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

Huh....system's telling me it's not posting...but obviously it is... repeatedly.

 

[ProdaddyTX]

John, Welcome to TBN.

It is good to see you stand behind your product. An open forum is no good unless you have at least two sides to the story. Sounds like you went above and beyond in supporting Art.

I do get on my soapbox about recons. I first perused your site when I was researching Yanmars prior to my purchase of my 2000B. When I saw the standard litany of “new” parts in all your tractors, I wrote your firm off as just another one to stay away from. If I was wrong to lump you in there then I apologize, you may be one of the good guys, but I still think you were misleading your customers on what they were buying. By the way, nice look to your new site.

It seems my post was most offensive to you as I was quoted several times. You had a warranty statement posted on your site and I was quoting from it for the most part. You say that you wanted it signed or the warranty was void. Why would it get your hackles up if someone then points this out? I am one of the few that reads the fine print. Why is it there if it doesn’t mean anything? Wasn’t there that little fine print statement “as needed” under your list of pistons, rings, clutch, etc. that was replaced in all your tractors?

Your warranty statement said it covered the above items only. Four wheel drive was not on that list. I consider it part of the drive train, but had no way of knowing you consider it transmission.

It is true that I need to temper what I say in a public forum. I forget sometimes and write as if I am speaking to an individual. A few months ago I replied honestly when asked my opinion of a publication and felt badly afterward. I should have replied in a PM; but then, I think, what good is a public forum if we are all worried about being politically correct and not stepping on anybodies toes? I did wonder why we never heard from anyone in the recon end of things, It’s good that you are busy. I am too. Life is like that. There is a reason that the majority of my posts are so early in the morning. I don’t believe I said anything libelous, but if you feel I did, then we can discuss that further. Sure, what is posted and read may affect buying decisions, just a glossy website claiming that every moving part in an engine has been replaced with new parts can affect buying decisions. Should that be labeled deceptive trade practice?

I don’t mean to come off as being combative. I am glad that you chose to post here and hope you do in the future.

Bruce

Bruce, I don't get my hackles up from you reposting text from our website....but I do get my hackles up at the incorrect conclusions you draw and broadcast in a public forum....the editorial comments and innuendo that are damaging to my business...when you have no experience with our business or our product. For example:

"seems like someone is trying to cover their butt."

"I see that four wheel drive is not covered under their warrenty."

"Parts for these have been scarce so check that out first thing."

"There is no shame in backing out of a deal when an item is blatently mis-represented." Ask Mace if he feels like I ever "blatantly misrepresented" anything to him.

You mention a "standard litany of new parts", then a moment later ask, "Wasn’t there that little fine print statement “as needed” under your list of pistons, rings, clutch, etc. that was replaced in all your tractors." There was no "little fine print". Same font, same size, and on one line only, which read "New pistons, cylinders, rings, and bearings if necessary." It's a totally valid statement meant to inform the buyer that, if necessary, even this level of work is done..... If the "if necessary" statement wasn't included, then it would be untrue and unethical. We're not the guys advertising "New Remanufactured", or "New Factory Refurbished", or that we "completely dismantle" and "remove every part". If you want to get a lesson in using the "If necessary" clause to maximum marketing benefit as well as legal protection, take a look at some of the tractors for sale on Ebay:
http://stores.ebay.com/SUPPLIERS-ONLINE-AUCTIONS
eBay Store - Suppliers Online Auctions: used, refurbished, parts

And don't lump us in with these guys!

"maybe they have gotten wind of how much heat they will take if you get a bad unit, so thay are being extra sure that yours is up to snuff." This plants the seed that if Mace's tractor is good, it's just an anomoly, and that the TBN Tractor police are who should get the credit for RCO delivering a quality product. Mace's tractor got no more or no less attention than any other that we sell.

"a glossy website claiming that every moving part in an engine has been replaced with new parts can affect buying decisions. Should that be labeled deceptive trade practice?" Yes, that statement would be deceptive....but it's not a statement that we've ever made, but that you are slyly trying to ascribe to me.....and that is what gets my hackles up, Bruce.

I've already admitted that we should have been more diligent about keeping all the smaller points updated on our website, but if anyone has suffered from it, it's only been us.

I think political correctness is a bunch of baloney.....political correctness is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about facts, data, personal experience. My question is, "What good is a public forum if it lacks these things, and instead offers generalizations, and incorrect assumptions presented as the truth?"

Once again, I just take extreme offense at being labelled as a liar, and deceptive, and a business to avoid, because our product offering includes, but is not limited to, some tractors that came to the US by way of Vietnam when we are working so hard ourselves to test, repair, and support everything we sell, and offering the best, and completely truthful advice that we can.

 

[BruceR]

Wow, Deja Vu all over again. I thought this had blown over John. I expressed my opinion, and it was only that. MY opinion. I'm sorry if you feel that one man's opinion was so damaging to your business. I have no problem with tractors comming from VietNam and actually give them and other third world countries credit for the mechanical inginuity shown as a result of haveing less than optimal parts and working conditions to deal with. If it takes several tractors to make up one running unit that is not a problem, but I would want to know that was what I was buying.
What I do have no respect for is someone putting in a statement that their products have new pistons, rings, etc. to mislead a prospective ( and often ingnorant ) buyer. That is a red flag as far as I am concerned. I do see that you removed that and any reference to all new parts and VN recons from your site. If I was just now cruising your site for the first time, I would probably check into your inventory. But to advertise your tractors as having all that new stuff and then back it up by saying that the guy you bought them from told you that and you didn't have any reason not to believe him was irresponsible at best. Didn't your warranty statement say something to the effect that "any working part will not be replaced whether it is used or not", how did the need for that statement arise if it were not for buyers being misled ( intentionally or not ) by your sales pitch ?
John, I think time time has shown that you are an honorable dealer. Even Arthur has come out in your defense. Mace is happy with his tractor and that is really all that was important here. My opinion, again it's only my opinion, is that your old website did more to hurt your business than I ever did. Stick around and add your input from time to time, that is the way to get the word out. Maybe even engage in some shameless self-promotion.

Bruce

 

[Green Acres N Ham]

This is a post I entered in the Yanmar discussion yesterday, when I was investingsting the purchase of my tractor from RCO I came across this thread
after reading John's post I felt I had made a good choice in buying from him.

I just took delivery of my Yanmar YM2210BD on Monday Jan 22 2007
I am going to plug RCO tractor here because during my purchase/research I read some discussion here about buying a rebuilt Yanmar and it seemed RCO got some attention and it wasn't all good.
not only did my tractor arrive looking good as new but everything worked smooth just like new (I tested a Chinese tractor and couldn't for the life of me get into 4WD) that wasn't the case with my Yanmar
let me just say the tractor was delivered by the owner and John took a lot of time to go over every detail and function. he had a busy day ahead of him with more tractors to deliver, but he was very patient and didn't leave until all my questions were answered. many companies could have delivered that via third party and dropped the tractor off at the door and left. I think this personal service say's a lot about their integrity and their product. they believe in it and they stand behind it.
My neighbor also has a rebuilt Yanmar purchased from another dealer in Texas and I know for a fact that he got good service from people who stand behind their product long after the sale
so if your thinking about buying a rebuilt Yanmar I believe you can get a good product from good people.

 

[LMTC]

Why do you keep posting THEIR picture?

 

[phatgemi]

I was going to ask that same question! Is that actually your tractor or is it a stock photo???

I will say that it looks pretty good. Hope it runs as well.

 

[Green Acres N Ham]

I haven't had time to take one myself, I leave for work in the dark and get home in the dark, I'll have some pics next week with mud on the tires