My name is John Ryan, my brother Stuart and I are the owners of RCO Tractor…a company that has been the subject of much scrutiny and speculation here on the Yanmar forum recently. I don’t have the time or inclination to refute every irrational, misinformed, or libelous statement in this post. But I would like to share a few facts and opinions, and respond to a few particular comments.
1. RCO Tractor does not reset any hour meters. We do inspect thousands of tractors annually that have been repaired and painted in Vietnam and have had meters reset. We buy some of them and reject far more. The ones we buy all go through our own testing and repair process in our own 50,000 sqft Dallas warehouse. I repeat, ALL OF THEM. That’s the place with the railroad tracks in the background of one pictures that some of you were bickering over. To date we have purchased, prepped, and sold about 1000 of these tractors and generally have a very happy clientele. We don’t bat 1000, but we try hard, and come pretty darn close. I think that’s about the best anybody can honestly claim. Frankly I’m surprised at the amount of time spent on this subject when everybody admits that a tractor showing 240 hours could really be 1240, 2240, 3240, etc.
2. We also sell tractors that are reconditioned completely in the USA. (I use the word “reconditioned” from habit, but apparently it’s taken on a seriously negative connotation…at least here…. So substitute the synonym of your choice: refurbished, recycled, fixed up, repaired, whatever). They come straight from Japan to America and are prepared for sale by good ole red blooded Americans…partially by the importer, and partially in our own Dallas warehouse. These tractors show original hours. Many have original paint that’s been buffed, many are repainted…..that doesn’t mean we’re trying to hide anything…it means we think it’s smarter to sell a good running AND good looking product. Anyone who feels like a banged up rusty body indicates that a tractor is more mechanically sound, you’re free to buy elsewhere.
3. I would argue, based on the parts requests I field every day, and my travels through roughly half of the United States and Canada in recent years, that there are 10 times the number of small roadside lots selling used, “un-reconditioned” (is that a word?) grey market tractors “as is” with no support whatsoever than there are similar outfits selling the evil “VN recons”. So in my view, the vague but undeniable theme in many TBN discussions that all Vietnamese stuff is unsupported junk, and all the other used as-is stuff is superior by nature, is bogus. My experience fielding parts calls supports this theory. We get far more calls from people looking for help with the un-reconditioned tractors.(there’s that word again…shall we call them “Uncons”? or how about “JapUncons”?…that’s fair and balanced, right?). My point is, if I wanted to resort to mud-slinging marketing tactics, what I would do is start grousing on TBN about every call I get from somebody who bought a used tractor from some guy who told him (these are actual calls we got just last week btw) that his late ‘70s model was made in 2003, or the water pump’s out, or the block is cracked, or it’s leaking everywhere, and he needs help finding parts because the seller offers no support. We got about a dozen such calls this week alone. None of them were “VN Recons”. But do you see us going on TBN and evangelizing about how Vietnamese tractors are the cat’s meow and everything else is garbage…..NO, because that’s not true, any more than the opposite is true. You can’t make those kind of generalizations.
4. A much more productive discussion here would be about how “this dealer is good”, or “this dealer did not support his product”…I see this sentiment echoed here, but then the recon bashers turn up the volume and it all gets drowned out. We do support our products, and I’ll argue that point with anybody because I field the calls and emails every day, and I take care of them to the best of my ability. Which is why I can’t stand reading comments from people who’ve never bought our product, never even talked to us, cast aspersions on us because of experiences they’ve had with products from other dealers, importers, or reconditioners…. I don’t doubt that you’ve seen problems, but don’t lump us in with all the auction yard rejects, untested container loads, and Ebay liars that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with RCO Tractor.
5. Who we buy from is proprietary information, so don’t even waste your breath asking us who our sources are. If we feel like saying then we will. A lot of time, trial and error, and money has gone into selecting our vendors, and they know who they are. We have a lot of respect and admiration for their hard work and their products, we really appreciate their support, and we consider them friends… ALL OF THEM. There are surely other good suppliers out there as well, and we hope to meet them someday too.
6. The internet is really something. It’s changed all of our lives. It is the most amazing source of useful information ever, but it can also be an amazing source of complete garbage and self-motivated public relations work disguised as useful information….so you should always consider the source and factual content of anything you read.
7. Regarding inconsistencies on our website about warranty…. LMTC (Wayne, right?), you are correct sir…. It is confusing… I admit it, and need to update it. But the inconsistencies are simply due to improvements in our warranty. We constantly change and improve (hopefully) our business practices in an effort to offer better products and service, then we have to update all that on the website. Some of the changes to the site have been lagging for months due to our being very busy buying, repairing, and delivering tractors, and servicing our customers after the sale. The reasons you saw differing warranty information is because different tractors came to us with different warranty periods offered. Some had a 6 month parts and labor warranty, and that was stated on the pages for THE PARTICULAR TRACTORS to which the 6 months warranty applied only. The 90 day warranty is the blanket that covers all the other tractors. Can we really be criticized that much for not getting the latest info about warranty on every page of our website…is that really an indication that we’re dishonest? But, you’re right, it’s gotten sloppy and it’s confusing and this forum brought that into focus. For the sake of consistency, and because we are confident in our products, we are switching to a 6 months parts and labor warranty on everything we sell.
8. Regarding our reconditioning details… There was a time years ago when a Vietnamese reconditioner was our sole supplier for grey market tractors, and it’s also true that we reprinted the reconditioning details provided to us by them at that time. They told us that’s what was done to the machines, and we’re not in the habit of calling someone a liar without evidence to support it. I can count on my fingers the number of engine problems we’ve had with these tractors. We see about 1/10 the rate of leaking seals, and ¼ the rate of electrical problems compared to other tractors we’ve bought. To me, these are pretty good signs that they’re not fresh paint on old junk. If they were, we would have quit selling them or gone out of business long ago. And you’d see a lot more people on TBN with specific factual complaints about RCO. However, you are correct in that we cannot prove every aspect of the old reconditioning statement with in-house documentation, nor should we apply it to tractors from other sources. It also does not reflect a lot of additional work we do to the tractors in house. For those reasons, we’re changing the reconditioning statement as well. It’s something we’ve needed to do for a while, and you guys are right to point it out.
While I don’t question your claim that you get lots of contacts from people who bought tractors reconditioned in Vietnam and now need help, what I’d like to know is this: How many people who bought tractors from RCO Tractor have contacted you complaining of terrible problems, no support, and repainted junk? It sounds like you run a good business and support your products…..so do we.
9. I agree that there are grey market tractors coming here by way of Vietnam that are not what they’re billed to be…..there’s a lot of dishonest marketing and dishonorable patch jobs going on…..but we don’t buy that kind of stuff….we’d be stupid to do that. Trying to compete against that junk is what drove us away from Ebay….it’s a freakin’ ZOO on there, and Ebay the company has totally lost control of it. We’re not trying to make a quick buck, we’re trying to offer real value, and old fashioned service, delivered in innovative ways. We want to have staying power. The Vietnamese folks that I’ve met and chosen to work with in the tractor business are honest, hardworking, church-going, family people…did I say hardworking? Man….really hardworking. (And they make some of the tastiest food in the world too. If you’ve never been to a good Vietnamese restaurant, you need to go.) They don’t always get the nuances of our language, and sometimes people confuse their direct, no b.s. nature (which I find refreshing) with rudeness. I haven’t see openly racist remarks on TBN, and I’m not pointing that finger at anybody here. But I have seen it elsewhere, and it’s a very emotional subject, so some of the assumptions about how any tractor that had anything to do with Vietnam should be avoided make me really uncomfortable on principle. Some should and some shouldn’t, just like with a lot of things. I personally know of several different Vietnamese importers operating in the US. Some we’ve looked at and will not buy from, others we haven’t looked at and can’t comment on, and some we have bought tractors from. Now, I can tell you that I think Leon has not always represented himself well on this forum, which is a shame, because in our dealings with him he has always been honorable, and I think he really could bring a valuable perspective. But with the pack of wolves mentality, and the “Vietnam is bad” attitude that prevails on this forum, I can’t say that I blame him for being defensive. It’s unfortunate.
10. Lastly…. I’m talking about the people that I choose to do business with and call friends, and I’m speaking from my own personal experience with them. If someone else here has had a different experience, that’s between you guys….leave me out of it. I don’t speak for anyone but myself, nor does anyone else speak for me. RCO Tractor is our own business, operating in our own location, buying inventory from various sources, and testing, repairing, and supporting it ourselves.
There are a few other comments I feel the need to respond to:
To Inspector507 , who says “I'd run”.
I respect your right to make your own buying decisions and express your opinions, but I’m curious what you are basing that advice on? Have you ever owned, driven, or seen one of our tractors in person… or ever even spoken to one of us?
In response to: “I don't guess I have ever seen a warrenty statement that you had to sign, seems like someone is trying to cover their butt.”
We ask for a signature because it encourages customers to read the darn thing. I tell every customer I deliver a tractor to personally that #6 is the most important thing on there….. In the event of any malfunction customer shall cease operation of tractor immediately and contact RCO Tractor. Do those sound like the words of someone who’s trying to run and hide from problems? We want to know about problems, and we want to make sure they understand that small easy-to-fix problems can quickly turn into expensive nightmares. On a number of occasions we’ve gone far beyond the letter of our warranty statement voluntarily just to take care of a customer and keep them happy, even though the problem could possibly have been caused by misuse by the customer. In a few instances we spent A LOT of money to correct a problem long distance, even though they fell outside the letter of our warranty statement, so I get my hackles up pretty fast when I see people guessing about how we might try to use the fine print on some 3 year old business form to screw people. And we have NEVER NEVER refused warranty service to someone because they didn’t sign the form, or return the form to us….. and we never will.
“I see that four wheel drive is not covered under their warrenty”……
That is not true. What leads you to think that? We consider that part of the transmission, and it is covered by our warranty. As far as parts availability….we just did two front seal and bearing replacements on YM1500D’s in the last week or two, but maybe those aren’t the parts you’re referring to. If we’re ever in a situation where we just cannot get a warranty part to get a customer rolling again, we’ll 1) be pretty embarrassed, and 2) just swap the tractor out.
“Gotta wonder why they don't have any representatives on this or any other Yanmar board to back up their claims.”
We don’t have time for the constant squabbling….we’d rather devote it to doing good work, taking care of our customers, and being with our families and friends. (Plus, you may be catching on that I can be too talkative.) We have a fairly small crew, we work very hard, and don’t have time to get cyber-gang tackled every time somebody wants to take a cheap shot. This has just gotten to the point that we had to respond because there’s so many people who know next to nothing about us speaking like they’re some sort of authority on a public forum…..this affects our business. Some of you use it to chat with your buddies, but you need to remember that it is a public forum and opinions you express can be searched and read by an unlimited number of people for years to come, and will affect their buying decisions and the livelihoods of lots of honest hard working people… so speak facts! While many of you are very responsible and helpful, others are reckless, full of bull, or simply using TBN as a free PR/Marketing forum. I wish I had the time for it, but I don’t. By the way, the definition of the word LIBEL is: · A false publication that damages a person's reputation, or the act of presenting such material to the public. In case you weren’t aware, there are laws against that.
HGM: “Mace, One thing I have learned here is that most of the comments regarding the VN recons are out of pure concern of your best interest.. Unfortunately, the concern and advise was aparently a little late in your case since you already bought the tractor..”
Mace did not buy a tractor that was reconditioned in Vietnam! He bought a tractor that was reconditioned in the US (just like that tractor’s web page stated) and shows 200-300 hours on the clock…For anyone to claim otherwise is to imply that we are blatantly lying.
If you guys had talked to Mace first you would have had him wreck his starter and waste $100 on fluids and filters that we had already replaced….. or you would have talked him out of buying the exact kind of tractor that most of you guys tell people they should buy.
To Arthr31.
This is a tough one, because we actually spent money to get Art a tractor, and when we last communicated a year and a half ago, he told me both by phone and in writing that he was very happy with us and his tractor. He was a great guy to deal with, and I expected that he would be an advocate for us. When his first tractor was damaged in transit (through no fault of ours) we offered, without question or hesitation, to ship a different tractor and pick the damaged one up at our expense….from Texas to Massachussetts. That cost us $2525. Any of you other dealers out there….have you ever done that? We are still, by the way, trying to recoup that money and several thousand dollars more that that carrier (AAA Cooper) jipped us out of. We’ve spent a couple thousand dollars in legal fees to date on top of the initial losses, btw.
After speaking with Art I’ve learned that the problem with loader hydraulics amounts to threaded fittings that loosened and leaked over time… Apparently they loosened to the point that they fell off and Art had a headache finding the right replacement parts locally. That’s a shame, because we’ve got boxes of them and could have shipped replacements same day had we been given the opportunity. I think the same thing happened with grease zerks. (I'm sure Art will correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.) Anyway, I’m not sure how to take the “cheap loader” comment. We’ve had to ship a few o-rings and replace a few cylinders when we had a batch that would lose pressure when an internal nut that was not properly torqued would vibrate loose…Rather than asking people to tear into cylinders we shipped replacements under warranty ….not fun for anybody, and not cheap for us…those things are heavy…but everybody who spoke up got taken care of, even if they were outside the warranty period. But I don’t believe Art experienced any of those problems. I’ve had problems with 2 Koyker control valves in just the last week, and hydraulic fittings will leak, regardless of brand. I think if Art had more experience with lots of different loaders, his opinion of ours would improve. I believe that they are the best available in their price range, and that Koykers are better in a few of ways, which they should be for a 20-30% higher price. We are an authorized Koyker dealer, so our customers have the option of picking one vs the other.
Art also expressed to me that many of his concerns with the YM1601 he bought from us were worries about what might go wrong with it in the future, rather than actual problems he was having, and that these smoldering concerns were fanned by some members of the forum…… C’mon guys… Don’t you have anything better to do?
If anyone wants to criticize or make fun of the Yanmars that were listed on our website on 5/19/2006…at least let the record show that those tractors have never been to Vietnam….never had the clock reset….and many of them had not been through our final in-house inspection and repair process at the time of photos.
Lastly, in the interest of having good mechanical advice on this forum…
1) Mace, Art, and any body else reading…. Crank your starter until the tractor starts, which shouldn’t take longer than a few seconds. If it takes longer, something else needs to be addressed like fuel delivery, preheating, compression, or it’s just too dang cold and you should be in front of the fire with your feet up.
2) Thermostats…their purpose is to regulate temperature within a desired operating range by allowing fluid to circulate (open thermostat) or not (closed thermostat) AFTER the engine is running. It doesn’t affect ease of starting. It’s not uncommon for hot weather tractors to be run without thermostats, because it’s not an important feature in that climate (I’m sure somebody will have a field day with that statement ) Some machines are not equipped with thermostats at all. Art’s tractor should have had a thermostat installed, and that’s an embarrassing omission on our part if it didn’t. Like I said we’re always improving, learning new stuff, and implementing new procedures to insure high quality.
3) Do frequent safety checks on your tractor. Tighten fasteners, inspect hydraulic hoses, check for leaks…. And call your dealer for help and advice when you see a problem.
Anyway, that’s my 2 thousand cents….sorry for the long ramble…. my feeling won’t be hurt if nobody says “Welcome to the forum.”
