New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding????

[texbaylea]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Tom_H

Few people are aware of the New Madrid Fault or the very high potential for another like it. This country will really see destruction and lost lives if that happens. I agree, liguefaction is a potential problem but I don't see any other practical source for the quantity of fill required.

Vernon

 

[JimR]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( One other point to rebuilding it would be some folks probabl dont want to leave their property. )</font>

The state government could condemn the whole low lying area and make everyone move out. Then these folks would have no choice. Who knows, they may not want to return after what has happened.

 

[Moon]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

I am glad to see help finally arriving for the many folks that were stranded. When talk of rebuilding came up, I too, had to wonder about rebuilding below sealevel again. Even rebuilding a few feet above sealevel doesn't seem prudent. I'm not an engineer, just a taxpayer.

But, what about all the middle class working folks who lived in NO. If their companies were not national with offices in other cities, they are out of a job for at least 6 months, maybe forever. Wouldn't you guess these folks are already looking for employment elsewhere and working to set up house somewhere else. They need money. With no company in place to pay them, they would have to hit the bricks looking for work to survive. Whether they want to move or not, the reality of the situation might force them to move, even though they would much prefer not to.

Even rebuilt, New Orleans will never be the same Big Easy that is once was.

 

[JimR]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

The latest statistics on New Orleans population said that 28% of the city is poor. They won't be able to afford to move and look for work elsewhere. Here is where the government will have to step in and help them out. That 28% figure came from the Mayor's mouth this morning.

 

[Amontilado]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

I imagine there will be Federal dollars made available to rebuild. I really can't blame the people who live in New Orleans. It's their home. What I do hope is that they are better prepared. Katrina will be a benchmark storm. There was evidence of a 31' storm surge in neighboring Hancock County Mississippi. If, and I mean if, another storm with even half of what Katrina offers, protection for a 15' surge will barely protect them. But if a 20'+ surge hits them more directly, I hate to think.

Steve

 

[JimR]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

I hope whoever rebuilds NO has enough brains to fill the city in first . Then rebuild it on higher ground so this will not happen again.

 

[sneaky_pete]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I hope whoever rebuilds NO has enough brains to fill the city in first . Then rebuild it on higher ground so this will not happen again. )</font>

If they did back fill it to sea level (or above), it would just sink again over time. NO is built on the Mississippi River delta. Delta sediments compact over time as they de-water (water is squeezed out of them), and the delta sinks. If you allow nature to take its course, springtime floods every year will deposit more sediment on top, maintaining the top at about sea level. But, if you construct man-made levees to stop the small annual floods, then no new sediment is deposited and the area just sinks.

They started building man-made levees in 1927; from then until now NO has sunk at least 8 feet (I have read higher figures). So if it was built back up today, you could expect it to be back at 8 feet below again by about 2080 or so. Maybe far enough in the future that it would be our grandchildren's problem, but the point is, it's still going to be someone's problem again some time. All the money in the world can't change mother nature, at least not for very long.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

<font color="red"> All the money in the world can't change mother nature, at least not for very long. </font>


I don't know about that. We have some plastic surgeons up here that work magic. Heck there are women walking around that had breast implants years ago and they still defy gravity as they enter their senior years. Always fun to see them pull out their AARP cards to prove their age as their breast implants and multiple face lifts seem to defy gravity and mother nature. Heck some of them look like their face has been lifted so many times I'm sure they had to have their breasts lowered a couple times.

So it goes to proved 2 things. You can rebuild what ever you want to rebuild, and you can defy mother nature!

It does not address the question of if you SHOULD do it.

 

[ronjhall]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Bob
Your turn at being a SENIOR CITIZEN is coming sooner than you would hope for. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Please lighten up on us older folks. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Ron, I was only illustrating a point of what technology is capable of doing. But the day you have plastic surgery to "enhance" your bust line is the day I will give up jokes of all types!

 

[Dargo]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Got pictures?! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[mwechtal]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Junk,
Adding to your list of mother nature beating up on the Northeast:

In '72 hurricane Agnes put a world of hurt on NY, PA, and I think parts of VA. She sat just off the coast at levels just around the minimum for hurricane force winds and rained on us. It rained for about 40 days and 40 nights. I bet some of you didn't think that could really happen! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif The Chemung and Susquehanna rivers and lots of smaller rivers flooded. Luckily, it weakened and moved offshore and the waters drained a few days after the levees (called dikes around here) failed. There was essentially no wind damage here, just a nice steady rain. There weren't a lot of houses totally lost, but I do have pictures somewhere of houses floating down the Chemung. Corning and Elmira were probably the most affected in NY, and I hear that Wilkes-Barre PA was worse.

Just another thing that can happen in the Northeast. If I remember right, only about 200 people died, and it cost $3 billion to clean up the mess. Of course, this is pocket change compared to the mess in NO.

Mike

 

[timb]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Agnes did a lot in PA - put downtown Pittsburgh under several feet of water, closed down the town for many days. At the peak of the storm the area rivers were dumping something like 35 times the normal flow downstream. And eastern PA got it worse than we did. A lot of things went away in PA after Agnes. Whole roads, railroad lines, factories, I think even some small towns - just weren't considered worth 'rebuilding' and were abandoned. They were already econmically marginal at that point and Agnes was the last straw.

Hurricane Ivans record rainfall last year on top of saturated ground from storms a week earlier flooded out many areas and damaged tens of thousands of homes and thousands of (mostly small) businesses. Many have rebuilt but there are still a lot that have not reopened and may never come back.

For sure there's no place that's completely safe from big storms like these.

I work at the headquarters of a national company and we're still missing 7 or 8 employees from the Katrina storm zone, but that number's down from several dozen a few days ago as folks are finally able to make contact.

 

[BB_TX]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Does it make sense to rebuild it? Depends on who you ask I guess. Some buildings in New Orleans have been standing over 100 yrs. San Francisco and Anchorage rebuilt on the same site after devastating earthquakes and never looked back. Florida and other SE Atlantic and gulf coast towns and cities destroyed by hurricanes and rebuilt would never think about moving even though that threat continues to exist. Dallas, Wichita Falls, Waco, Amarillo have suffered major tornado damage, but they rebuilt on the same spot. Building codes in all these areas have been improved, but the locations are still the same. If you had lived your entire life there and never had that kind of damage, would you rebuild there? Even though you knew it could happen again? Probably. I live in the southern end of tornado alley. If one came along and destroyed my house, I would rebuild here even though it could happen again. Deep roots are hard to pull up.

 

[Amontilado]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Mike,

Did you ever see the book/magzine that was put out after Agnes? I grew up in eastern Centre County and Agnes was the only storm I ever saw that water ever came close to coming in my parents basement. Their house is about 15' higher and 125yds away from the creek that passes by. The house was built over 200yrs ago, when they had common sense to build away from the streams/rivers.

I still remember the picture of an Amish buggy sitting in axle deep water next to a power company truck in what is called the Milheim Narrows by the locals (me included). When Ivan passed here on the Gulf coast, called the p's to say everythnig was ok and Ivan had flooded the creek to Agnes proportions. I guess that's why I got into the weather thing.

Steve

 

[mwechtal]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Steve,
No, I didn't see that book. I'm sure I'd have bought it if the price was anywhere near reasonable. I'll have to look around for one.

I lived in Horseheads at the time, which is just north of Elmira and a little higher. So we weren't flooded, but we had relatives that were. You get pretty tired of shoveling flood mud pretty fast.

I hadn't met my wife yet, but my in-laws in Corning had water nearly to the 2nd floor, and my FIL went back for one more armload and ended up stuck in the house for a couple of days with the dog and cat.

My wife and I live on top of a hill outside Corning. We didn't even LOOK at houses in the valley. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mike