New Orleans 8' under sea level Rebuilding????

[JimR]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">
February 6 & 7, 1978 a massive nor'easter brought record-breaking snowfall and near hurricane force winds, closing interstates, schools, and businesses for more than a week. For Boston and Providence, Rhode Island, this snowstorm ranks as the biggest on record, dumping more than two feet of snow. Other portions of Massachusetts and Rhode Island received up to four feet of snow.

Got to just love the weather in New England..... you never know what to expect and when. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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I was too young to really remember the Hurricanes. I do remember that my mother's cellar in Leicester was full of water. We lived on a brook that had flooded the banks. Our house was on a downgrade from the road. I remember the Blizzard of 78 real well. I worked for Milbury Ford at the time. They wouldn't let us leave work early. I drove from Auburn to Paxton in 35-40 minutes in the snow. This is normally a 20-25 minute ride. I did have to drive over the median strip twice on Mill St. because of people that were stuck. I also drove up airport hill off of Mill St. which hadn't been plowed yet. Rt. 122 was a total disaster heading up from Tatnuck Square. Cars were spun out everywhere according to the radio. I spent the next 2 days plowing people out, pulling people out of ditches, pulling them up the hill at Tatnuck Square and having a ball in the snow with my snowmobiles. My wife was smart and left work early and was safe and sound at home. I don't recall that we lost our power and we had no damage related to the Blizzard. The coast did however take a direct beating from this storm. Many people were stranded on the major highways due to poor weather reports. Forecasters were calling for 1-2". The storm stalled off the coast and intensified in the afternoon. We were getting 1-2" an hour by the time I left work at 5pm. The weather forecasters had changed the forecast by then to 4-6". We had 8" on the ground when I left work at 5pm.

 

[Wiens]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The simple fact is that it's possible to do. Civil Engineers and the Corp of Engineers have stated they can build levees to handle Cat 5 hurricanes. It's also possible to build up New Orleans so it's not below sea level. Something the engineers have also said is possible.

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I think it's the height of arrogance for people who (1) Do not live in New Orleans and (2) Have no idea what's possible, to blithely state the city shouldn't be rebuilt. Should not rebuilding be a consideration? Certainly. But it's not as intuitively obvious as some pretend it is. )</font>

When I first read your statement my anger quotient went up significantly. I reread it and calmed down. Something may be "possible", that doesn't make it prudent or cost effective. Since MY and YOUR tax dollars will rebuild/relocate this city I have a right to have an opinion. I am not a civil engineer and don't pretend to know what's possible, but common sense tells me not to build my earthly dwelling 20 feet below sea level. Especially since the only separation is a few feet of concrete.

I firmly believe we should assist the homeless without question. I have even offered two extra bedrooms in our home to the local homeless agency, who was called by FEMA to see how many families they could house. I do, however, have the right to question the process. I do live in a republic which allows me to contact my representative and state my opinion on this or any other matter.

The horror we are witnessing is unfathonable to those of us not in it. My heart breaks for our fellow human that are suffering.

Kevin

 

[MikePA]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

<font color="blue"> Something may be "possible", that doesn't make it prudent or cost effective. </font>
Very true. No one yet knows what it will cost to rebuild New Orleans in its current location. Or build it up so it's not under sea level. Similarly, no one knows yet what it will cost to relocate a city of almost 500,000 people either.

<font color="blue"> I do live in a republic which allows me to contact my representative and state my opinion on this or any other matter. </font>
No one said you didn't. However, what happens to New Orleans will be a function of the cost of the alternatives with politics mixed in.

<font color="blue"> My heart breaks for our fellow human that are suffering. </font>
So do I, which includes not telling people that their city will not be rebuilt.

 

[beenthere]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Two places come to mind that have been raised above the old city (other than Pompei), and they are the underground in Atlanta, and an 'underground' in Seattle. Seems an 'underground' in NO might be a plan for those who want to rebuild.

I don't think that it will happen unless the tourists continue to go there and spend their money. No tourist money, nothing of importance will rise up. However, with this devastation, the tourists may flock there in droves and want to see the 'devastation', the re-construction, and the 'old' NO French Quarter. Their bucks will dictate what will happen, IMO. I just hope its not 'my' bucks, as I wouldn't be too happy with that scenario.

As far as the welfare people, they will go off to another 'project' and continue to be 'taken' care of, with my money. I don't like that either.

 

[Tom_H]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Old Town Sacramento, which sits on the bank of the Sacramento River, was raised one story by bringing in millions of wheelbarrow loads of dirt and filling the streets to the second story of most buildings. The second floors became the first floor and the first floors bacame basements. New doorways were cut where second story windows had been. There are a few back alleys that weren't filled in and one can walk downslope to "basement" entryways.

The capitol sits in Capitol Park, not surrounded by other buildings. A wide gently sloping berm was filled in all around the building to do the same thing. What used to be the first floor is now the basement and the previous second floor is now the first floor.

In the early years following the Gold Rush, tailings from hydraulic mining clogged the river and delta, inducing several years of severe downtown flooding. We still face huge flooding potential along the American River which flows out of the Sierra, across the Central Valley, through east Sacramento and into the Sacramento River. After years of deadlocked politics, a deal was struck to raise Folsom Dam 7 feet and reinforce all our levees. A couple of months ago a report came out from the Corps of Engineers that the estimated costs of retrofitting Folsom Dam had trippled to around a billion $. This has reignited a 30 y.o. debate about building a large multi-purpose dam on the American River at Auburn. This dam was started in the '70's, then stopped when a fault was discovered. It was later determined that the fault is not a significant problem, but the inertia had stopped and could not be restarted. Everything here is all bogged down in politics and no progress is being made. In the meantime, Sacramento is at risk of the same fate as N.O., though not on as massive of a scale. This new dam would cost more than the retrofit of Folsom Dam and levee improvements, BUT, the profits from hydro power would pay for those higher costs. N.O. had once in 350 year flood protection. We currently have 100 year average protection. The Folsom Dam retrofits and Levee improvements would give us 200 year protection. A dam at Auburn would give us 450 year protection.

Most people know of Yosemite Valley in Yosemite National Park. What many folks outside of CA do not know is that there are two glacial valleys there. In the early 1900's, the city of San Francisco got congress to overrule park rules and dam up this other valley, known as Hetch Hetchy so S.F. would have a large supply of pure mountain water piped across the valley and around S.F. Bay into the city. There is a newer reservoir downstream on the Tuolumne, known as Don Pedro Reservoir which holds 10 x the volume of Hetch Hetchy. Environmentalists want to take down Hetch Hetchy (because Don Pedro has extra capacity) and restore this second jewel in Yosemite. Simultaneously, pro-development forces want Folsom Dam built as it would provide much more water supply, flood protection for Sacramento, Hydro-Electric power, and recreation. I have written to all the politicians and environmental groups suggesting a deal: the right allows environmentalists to take down Hetch Hetchy, while environmentalists allow pro-development forces to proceed with Auburn Dam. I think it would be a win-win situation for everyone. Not one politician, political or environmental group has even replied however. The status-quo is a hard thing to change, regardless of whether it makes sense to do so or not.

Though special interests wield a lot of power, at least our leaders are elected. Most world experts think the 3-Gorges Dam will be a disaster. The Chinese government doesn't have to worry about public opinion though. They aren't elected. They keep their power by force and do whatever they choose. While it may be difficult to change our status-quo, I surely am glad we the citizens have a voice.

 

[texbaylea]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Galveston, TX is another city that was raised. After the 1900 hurricane and the one that followed they raised the island 8' or 9'.
They raised some houses and filled in around other houses and buildings. Sometime after that the 15' seawall was built to mitigate the storm surge. They also piled texas granite blocks at the foot to prevent undercutting. It has stood well since. This is from memory of reading acounts from the time so may not be absolutely correct.

N-O could be filled by dredging Lake Ponchatrain but noxious materials in the sediments would be a problem.

Vernon

 

[JimR]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Galveston, Tx was the rival to newport R.I. in its hayday before the big disaster in the early 1900's. It never regained that stature after rebuilding the city. There is a really good article on the net about galveston, Tx that I read yesterday when I was searching for Brownwood.

 

[Tom_H]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( N-O could be filled by dredging Lake Ponchatrain but noxious materials in the sediments would be a problem. )</font>

San Francisco sits on a peninsula of bedrock. During the Gold Rush, thousands of wooden ships were abandoned at the waterfront. Later these were covered over with loose soil and dredged up muck. If you've visited S.F., this is why you see hills everywhere, except for a flat apron around the bayside which is at 5' M.S.L. In the quakes of 1906 and 1989, buildings on solid ground did much better than those on this fill. The silt and clay sized particles are separated by tiny amounts of water. When a quake hits, a phenomenon known as liquefaction occurs. What appears to be solid ground turns out to be more like jello. It both amplifies the shock waves and becomes fluid i.e. it is able to flow under shocked conditions. The New Madrid fault has the potential for worse quakes than the San Andreas. That circa 1812 quake was the worst known in the lower 48 states. Dredged sediment would be highly unsuitable for this reason. A material which will not liquify during a quake will be required.

 

[cqaigy]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

Here we lived thru a volcano, two "hundred year" floods and the relatively recent history of tsunamis, destructive earthquakes and MT. Rainier la hares taking out huge areas of what are now heavily populated areas.

We pretty much all live in locations that can be severely effected by what mother nature has in mind, so we all need to do what we can to be prepared to help our selves and neighbors when these disaster happen.

 

[Taylortractornut]

Re: New Orleans 8\' under sea level Rebuilding????

A friendand I were talking about this earlier today and He mentioned a technique my dad used to work with. he take a swamp and drain water from it then use hydrofill to take silt from the rivers and lakes and other bodies of water to fill in the Bayou and make developments. He also asked why is wasnt feasible other than all the utilities having to be redone. Ive seen hydrofill on a large scale but not that large. One other point to rebuilding it would be some folks probabl dont want to leave their property.