New rules for ethanol in gasoline

[5030]

Something else that a lot of people don't realize and that is Propane don't come from the ground like NG or crude oil and a lot of people heat with Propane (including me). Propane is cracked from crude oil in a catalytic cracker just like diesel or gasoline or other petroleum products are. Unlike gasoline and other petro based products however, propane can be stored in underground caverns which is what they do here and in Sarnia, Ontario. Propane is 100% man made.

 

[jyoutz]

The cornlobby is too strong.

Chuck Grassley

 

[jjeff]

Interesting thread I read maybe on here ethanol is an octane booster to replace MTBE which is bad for groundwater and the environment compared to ethanol? Unfortunately corn based ethanol causes phase separation I know in other countries mostly south America I believe, they use switch grass that's cheaper to grow and produces better results I've read.apologize for not providing a link or source. I do know the major power sports companies seem to be switching to efi systems, even simpler throttle body designs on entry level contraptions to help combat burning down the top end, carb issues, when running ethanol and to better meet EPA and eu regs. Personally I hate ethanol blended fuel (and I don't hate anything besides snakes lol) and from firsthand experience never had as many carburator problems or top end issues on two strokes especially, or other power sports equipment until ethanol became more prevalent. Rants over enlighten me, I feel better lol.

 

[drssg]

so going back to OP, does availability of ethanol free fuel depend on demographic demand in each locale, or is it a matter of state/local regulation, or lobbyists?

I don't know what controls it, but I found this site, which indicates where/if it's sold in your area.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

 

[jyoutz]

Read it in the local rag this morning (AP article) so I had no link as it wasn't on the net to begin with and I didn't look.

If you leave e-gas in a carb without additive for an extended period, it will separate (called phase shift) and the water will most certainly corrode the inside of the carb and clog the jets. Been there and done that more than once. I imagine that an EFI engine is less impacted but something with a carb is.

Why all my small stuff (chainsaws and weed eaters) are now on synthetic fuel). All carbed and all susceptible tp getting gunked up and the chainsaws with their diaphragm carbs especially.

I always use Marine Stabil in the mowers as they sit all winter with full fuel tanks but phase shift is still an issue.

Most small engines don't like e-gas. They will tolerate 10% but 15% could spell death for them. In fact, most newer small engines state that right on the fuel tank or on the gas cap for a reason.

Both of our vehicles are flex fuel which means the fuel delivery components are tolerant of alcohol though I've never used it and it is widely available here.

I get 40 on regular anyway, good enough for me as I don't drive all that much anyway.

Even states in our owners manuals that using E85 will decrease the fuel mileage. I imagine that Fords (my car) and GM (my wife's Suburban) know what they are talking about.

I know on my car it states in the owners manual to run a tank of regular unleaded every 4th tankfull. Why I don't know.

Several years ago, I started buying ethanol free gas for all my small engines. It costs more and is only available in premium grade, but no more gummed up carburetors.

 

[etpm]

Ethanol is nothing more than an Octane Booster.

View attachment 786614

Ethanol may be added to gasoline as "nothing more than an octane booster", I don't know. But it certainly does more that raise octane. Besides attacking some types of plastics and rubbers it also corrodes some aluminum alloys. Unfortunately some small engines carbs are made of aluminum alloys that ethanol corrodes. This corrosion does indeed leave behind "gunk" in passages. I guess it may rely on your definition of gunk whether the corrosion products found in carbs could be called gunk. Nevertheless corrosion products from ethanol exposure can be found in small engine carbs and these products not only tend to clog up passages they also make passages larger while at the same time cause pitting in these passages which can affect the even flow of air and fuel through these passages. So once the gunk is cleaned out of the passages the carbs will not meter fuel the same because the larger passages let more fuel flow through. The pitting of course causes turbulence. I imagine this turbulence would probably have more of an effect on air flow than fuel flow but I don't know.
Eric

 

[etpm]

Interesting thread I read maybe on here ethanol is an octane booster to replace MTBE which is bad for groundwater and the environment compared to ethanol? Unfortunately corn based ethanol causes phase separation I know in other countries mostly south America I believe, they use switch grass that's cheaper to grow and produces better results I've read.apologize for not providing a link or source. I do know the major power sports companies seem to be switching to efi systems, even simpler throttle body designs on entry level contraptions to help combat burning down the top end, carb issues, when running ethanol and to better meet EPA and eu regs. Personally I hate ethanol blended fuel (and I don't hate anything besides snakes lol) and from firsthand experience never had as many carburator problems or top end issues on two strokes especially, or other power sports equipment until ethanol became more prevalent. Rants over enlighten me, I feel better lol.

Ethanol is ethanol, no matter if made from corn, rice, barley, grapes, or synthesized from crude oil. Switch grass may be a cheaper feedstock than corn but the ethanol produced from it is the same chemical as the ethanol produced by any other source. That's why it is specifically called ethanol, and not just alcohol. There are many alcohols and ethanol is just one of them.
Eric

 

[Wagtail]

WOW! You blokes are screwed.

Fortunately our Aussie ethanol is cane sugar based, but even then we still have the option of paying 1 cent more per litre for 'straight' petrol... which I do pay for my ute, Z-turn and 2-stroke (prior to mixing).

Regarding the Ute, the 'mileage' is significantly better than the (up to 10%) ethanol blend and worth the cost.

 

[California]

WOW! You blokes are screwed.

We have the finest Congress that money can buy ....

 

[Torvy]

Ethanol is ethanol, no matter if made from corn, rice, barley, grapes, or synthesized from crude oil. Switch grass may be a cheaper feedstock than corn but the ethanol produced from it is the same chemical as the ethanol produced by any other source. That's why it is specifically called ethanol, and not just alcohol. There are many alcohols and ethanol is just one of them.
Eric

My oldest did his Master's Thesis on switch grass as a biofuel (ChemE). His project was attempting to make the extraction process more efficient. Ultimately, there was only so much that could be done to make it cost effective, and it wasn't.