New tractor advice sought

[ericm979]

I have only put a few hundred hours on the B7100. I've had stuff going on in my life the last 12 years which has consumed nearly all my time and energy outside work. (nothing bad; it was something I enjoyed). But I'm scaling that activity back and will have time to deal with my neglected property. I'll also probably be retiring relatively soon. I'd like to clear land for a shop, clean up some old overgrown roads, make some new ones, open up some more areas with brush on them for looks and for fire safety.

I went to a Kubota dealer and checked out the B3350 and L3301. I liked the manuverability of the 3350 and most of the controls. While it's lower I think the L3301 is wider and would be better on slopes. Much larger than a L3301 seems like it'd be unweildy in some of the tighter places, and is probably more than I need. Also my wife went with me and when she saw the L3301 she said "that's huge!". I think 5' implements would be enough for the areas I'll be grading and mowing.

I'd get R4s and possibly wheel spacers. Does a wider front track help stability as much as a wide rear, even with the axle pivot? The L3301 seeems narrow there compared to some competitors.

I'm planning on getting a Woodmax WM-8H chipper. We dont' burn much wood. You can't even give fir away for firewood here. So I'd be chipping fir as big as I can fit in the chipper. Larger madrone and oak can be used as firewood but I'll be chipping anything under 4". Will 26 PTO HP power a WM-8H for large fir or would I need more power? I've watched videos of the WM-8H in action. It's pathetic on a 19hp machine, the guy had to stop the feed for a branch that wasn't even that big. The videos from Woodmax (and Woodland Mills 8" chipper) seem to use 3901s and they appear to handle larger stuff without feeding too slow.

I'm considering a flail instead of a rotary cutter. I read the entire 400 page flail thread when I was home sick. Safety is the biggest concern- I already shot a rock into the neighbor's window when mowing on the property line. That was with wth a 42" cutter, I imagine a 5' one will shoot stuff a lot farther. A lot of the brush we have is too big and old for a rotary cutter but once it's cut or pulled up the new stuff that sprouts is under an inch and could go under a flail. A flail seems like it'd be shorter and more manuverable. I realize it's more maintenance.

I've been comparison shopping other makes around the L3301 size. There's some nice features that I've not seen before having only uses one tractor from the 1990s. The loader control on the fender on the B3350 was nice. It seems like independent PTO would be useful. Dont' have to stop to turn off the PTO, and you can reach the PTO control from the ground when operating a chipper. Massey 1736 even has a PTO button on the fender! I can kind of heel and toe my B7100 but left side brake would be more convenient. I'd like to try a tractor with dual HST pedals instead of a rocker. How useful do you find the independent PTO?

The closest dealers are Deere and Kubota, about 25 miles away. I'm not interested in Deere and that dealer doesn't sell many tractors, they mostly sell turf equipment. Massey, NH and the Kubota dealer I went to are 50-60 miles. There's a Mahindra dealer 85 miles away. Unfortunately Dave's Tractor is 250 miles away. Purely by spec the LS XR3135 looks the best but that dealer's 100 miles and appears to be a small operation. Mahindra 2538 also looks good, nice tight turning radius and wide track, and lack of DPF means I could run it at lower speeds or idle when appropriate. I'm a bit concerned about Korean tractor's reliability, lack of documentation and lack of parts compared to Kubota. Having a quality dealer would be even more important than with a Kubota. But there's some better features on paper. I need to make some time to visit dealers.

Massey lists the slope operation for the 1736 at 20 degrees all around. I've not seen that figure for any other tractor and I realize that all it takes is a hole or rock to put you over. But a comparison would be useful.

Thanks for anyone who reads all this or answers any of my questions.

 

[rbtjr]

I have only put a few hundred hours on the B7100. I've had stuff going on in my life the last 12 years which has consumed nearly all my time and energy outside work. (nothing bad; it was something I enjoyed). But I'm scaling that activity back and will have time to deal with my neglected property. I'll also probably be retiring relatively soon. I'd like to clear land for a shop, clean up some old overgrown roads, make some new ones, open up some more areas with brush on them for looks and for fire safety.

I went to a Kubota dealer and checked out the B3350 and L3301. I liked the manuverability of the 3350 and most of the controls. While it's lower I think the L3301 is wider and would be better on slopes. Much larger than a L3301 seems like it'd be unweildy in some of the tighter places, and is probably more than I need. Also my wife went with me and when she saw the L3301 she said "that's huge!". I think 5' implements would be enough for the areas I'll be grading and mowing.

I'd get R4s and possibly wheel spacers. Does a wider front track help stability as much as a wide rear, even with the axle pivot? The L3301 seeems narrow there compared to some competitors.

I'm planning on getting a Woodmax WM-8H chipper. We dont' burn much wood. You can't even give fir away for firewood here. So I'd be chipping fir as big as I can fit in the chipper. Larger madrone and oak can be used as firewood but I'll be chipping anything under 4". Will 26 PTO HP power a WM-8H for large fir or would I need more power? I've watched videos of the WM-8H in action. It's pathetic on a 19hp machine, the guy had to stop the feed for a branch that wasn't even that big. The videos from Woodmax (and Woodland Mills 8" chipper) seem to use 3901s and they appear to handle larger stuff without feeding too slow.

I'm considering a flail instead of a rotary cutter. I read the entire 400 page flail thread when I was home sick. Safety is the biggest concern- I already shot a rock into the neighbor's window when mowing on the property line. That was with wth a 42" cutter, I imagine a 5' one will shoot stuff a lot farther. A lot of the brush we have is too big and old for a rotary cutter but once it's cut or pulled up the new stuff that sprouts is under an inch and could go under a flail. A flail seems like it'd be shorter and more manuverable. I realize it's more maintenance.

I've been comparison shopping other makes around the L3301 size. There's some nice features that I've not seen before having only uses one tractor from the 1990s. The loader control on the fender on the B3350 was nice. It seems like independent PTO would be useful. Dont' have to stop to turn off the PTO, and you can reach the PTO control from the ground when operating a chipper. Massey 1736 even has a PTO button on the fender! I can kind of heel and toe my B7100 but left side brake would be more convenient. I'd like to try a tractor with dual HST pedals instead of a rocker. How useful do you find the independent PTO?

The closest dealers are Deere and Kubota, about 25 miles away. I'm not interested in Deere and that dealer doesn't sell many tractors, they mostly sell turf equipment. Massey, NH and the Kubota dealer I went to are 50-60 miles. There's a Mahindra dealer 85 miles away. Unfortunately Dave's Tractor is 250 miles away. Purely by spec the LS XR3135 looks the best but that dealer's 100 miles and appears to be a small operation. Mahindra 2538 also looks good, nice tight turning radius and wide track, and lack of DPF means I could run it at lower speeds or idle when appropriate. I'm a bit concerned about Korean tractor's reliability, lack of documentation and lack of parts compared to Kubota. Having a quality dealer would be even more important than with a Kubota. But there's some better features on paper. I need to make some time to visit dealers.

Massey lists the slope operation for the 1736 at 20 degrees all around. I've not seen that figure for any other tractor and I realize that all it takes is a hole or rock to put you over. But a comparison would be useful.

Thanks for anyone who reads all this or answers any of my questions.

We have a Kubota L3800. We put a 4" spacer on each rear wheel. That 8" total increased width made a very significant difference in the stability of the tractor. Second, we have a W R Long UJ2 four-in-one bucket on the L3800. It is an extremely useful attachment. We also have a grapple, and if I had to choose between the 4-in-1 bucket and the grapple I would pick the 4-in-1. However, I think there would be a lot of disagreement about that choice on this board. Finally, if you do run the tractor sideways on hills, of course be very--very--careful. Walk the ground first, and when in doubt don't do it. And be sure to operate only on slight hills until you get a very good feel. And go slowly. We have a tilt-meter on the L3800, and I never go more than a 15 reading (not sure if that is degrees or percent, but whatever it is, I don't exceed it). And if you leave the loader on, be sure to lower the bucket as much as you can to lower the center of gravity. I run the bucket almost at the ground with the front edge of the bucket angled up so that if I hit an unseen obstacle the bucket won't dig in and cause further problems. I am sure that many others can weigh in with safety advice. When in any doubt, don't do it.

 

[jeff9366]

Loading the rear tires 3/4 full with liquid lowers the tractor's center-of-gravity.

 

[ericm979]

I plan to get the rears loaded. The dealer I have an L3301 quote for says they fill with plain water.

 

[jeff9366]

We have 20 acres in the California coastal mountains. The land's pretty hilly.

I've been using a B7100HST for 15 years. I run a Merry Mac 4.5" chipper/shredder, 42" rotary mower, use the loader to pull up larger brush, and use the loader to move dirt for the garden and piled leaves on the paved road. Box blade to smooth out places I cleared.

With the land being hilly there's a lot of places too steep to get a tractor in. There's a couple flat acres around the house, a few roads (and more that I need to clear) and about half of the brushy area isn't too steep to operate the B7100 on, especially if I avoid sidehilling.

I'd really like a larger chipper as the current one's just not that effective. I'm thinking a Woodmax 8H or similar. I'll need a bigger tractor to run it. I'd also like to do a lot more clearing of brush and some trees, and the B7100 just can't do that much.

I'm looking at a new Kubota, either a large B or small L. The Woodmax 8H's minimum 19hp would technically be satisfied by a B2650 or L2501 but it seems that more HP would make it more useful. The Ls have a slightly larger turning radius than the Bs. The Ls are heavier which would be good for loader work and stability hauling a 990 lb chipper.

You know your situation best and you have some tractor experience. Having said that, in my experience, you are considering tractors that are too light. You need a tractor with a bare weight of 3,500 pounds, which in Kubotas are the 'Grand Ls' or utilitarian MX series.

Better a used tractor of sufficient weight than a new tractor that is too light.

Questions:
-is a B3350 more stable on slopes than an L3301?

B3350 = 1,896 pounds/bare tractor, 54" tire width

L2501 = 2,623 pounds/bare tractor, 55" tire width

Both are too light for work on slopes. Neither can safely operate a 990 pounds chipper. On even slight slopes, the chipper will take control of either tractor. Not only is the chipper heavy, it is cantilevered far to the rear of the tractor on the Three Point Hitch, amplifying the effective weight of the chipper in leveraging up the front wheels.


-is the lighter weight of a B beneficial on sloped soft soil so it doesn't sink in and tip?

No. The opposite is true. Weight increases stability.

-Can the wheels be moved out on Bs or small Ls?

No. For adjustable rear tire widths you have to buy a 'Grand L'.

-the R1s on the B7100 have worn, probably due to work on pavement. R4s would handle that much better. Do they also make the track wider than R1s?

Yes. About 3" on the Bs and small Ls.

How about floatation on soft soil?

Flotation not the key metric. The key metric is traction. Generally speaking, R1 and R4 tires exert approximately the same ground pressure. As tractors get heavier, tractor tire size also increase. In soft soil barred R1 tires have more traction. (R4s float slightly more than R1s.)

You did not state your altitude. Horsepower declines about 3% for every 1,000 feet of altitude over 1,500 feet. At 6,000 feet or more, a turbocharged tractor engine is advised.

Buy enough tractor.

 

[ericm979]

The one time I got into trouble with the 7100 was when dumping a bucket load of pine needles and debris on my pine needle pile. It's off the side of a bank. The ground slopes down about 4' and I'd built the pile out level from the top, dumping with a wheelbarrow over the years. I drove the 7100 out on it a few feet and one side sunk down, tilting the tractor over farther than I was comfortable with. I didn't want to chance tipping it over while getting it out so I used a comealong to pull it up and filled in the soft spot so it supported the tractor enough to drive it safely.

I probably can't get away with stuff like that on a tractor that weighs 2-2.5x more. But we got rid of those big firs near the house and got some other equipment that I'd be using to haul needles so I won't be using the new tractor for that.

Your point about the weight of the chipper is one I've been considering too. The chipper on the 7100 is about at the limit of it's 3pt capacity and makes a significant difference in handling. But it does add traction.

We're at 2000' so altitude's not an issue.

 

[jeff9366]

1) I didn't want to chance tipping it over while getting it out so I used a comealong to pull it up.

2) I probably can't get away with stuff like that on a tractor that weighs 2-2.5x more. But we got rid of those big firs near the house and got some other equipment that I'd be using to haul needles so I won't be using the new tractor for that.

1. Prudent resolution. Farming is one of the most dangerous occupations; and tractors account for many farm injuries.

2. A 3,500 pound tractor FEL will have a more reach on an longer length-overall tractor.

The chipper may be withiin weight limits of Three Point Hitch when the tractor is stationary but chipper will apply much more stress to the tractor when it bounces.

One of the keys to tractor reliability is to NOT operate tractors at >80% of limits more often then necessary.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.

 

[mike69440]

For weight, a mid size Mahindra or Kioti would be a better choice, especially with FEL, you have 4,000 lb tractor, more with loaded tires.

 

[ericm979]

I'm coming to the conclusion that it's going to be a Kubota L3901. I'm not entirely happy about that. There are similar sized models from LS, Mahindra and Branson that I'd consider. They have more features than the stripped down L's and cost less. But their dealers are all too far away- 80+ miles through traffic. You've heard of food deserts? I'm in a tractor desert. Within 50 miles there's just Deere, Kubota and Massey. I won't get a Deere. The MF dealer seemed uninterested in selling the models I'm looking at... they might have one in April.

The ratio of chipper weight to tractor+loader will be about the same with a Woodmaxx 8h and L3901 and my current MerryMac and B7100. I'd like a little more tractor weight, and a bit more loader capacity, like most of the L's competitors have. The next steps in the Kubota line, 4701 and 3560, are enough larger that I'm concerned about manuverability. My land is hilly with small interspersed flatish spots and roads. For the most part those are what I'm going to clear or keep cleared. I have to get the tractor to them, with loader and mower or chipper. The 4701 and 3560 have 6' buckets and that's getting tight for fitting into my barn. And they're a lot more expensive.

Around here for most people tractor == Kubota. That'll help resale value, but the dealers know the position they have and price accordingly. The quotes I have are list price minus Kubota incentive, and a little bit off that. I can only look in awe at the quotes that people post, and their selection of dealers.

OTOH Kubota makes good tractors and parts support is good. It's not like a L3901 is a bad tractor, just not exactly what I want and more than I wanted to pay. It's especially galling that the 3901 is $2300 more than a 3301 even though the only difference is ECU tuning, and it's actually only got 37.5hp.

 

[Thomas]

Lots good advice already giving. :thumbsup:
Let to the tractor come to you for comfort if your planning to spent hours in the seat,by that I mean leg butt arm comfort from controls.