Newbie quesstion Proper operation of Diesels

[EdC]

Have a question for all of you that are a LOT more familiar with operating diesels than I am. My wife and I have been pulling sage brush out of the field in front of our house. I wrap the chain around the trunk and my wife runs the tractor pulling the sagebrush out. Some of the big plants are a strain for our 2320 and in a lot of cases we are spinning the rear wheels.

Now on to the question. We have the throttle at about 2900 rpm but when there is going to be a bit of time, 5 minutes or more, in between pulling plants out, say for loading the truck to take the stuff to where we burn it, I throttle the tractor back to about 1600 rpm or so. Is that the right way to operate the tractor or am I messing up?

Also would be really interested in a cure for sage brush that does not include the phrase D8.

Thanks

 

[RoyJackson]

As far as lowering the RPM between pulling the brush...you're doing fine. Deere does not recommend extended idling as it wastes fuel and can soot up the injectors. I think you'll find this in your manual. However, Deere does not define "idling".
Anyway, I'll also idle my 790 at 1500 ± 100 RPM for 5 minutes or so. If you know it's going to be closer to 10 minutes, I'd shut it down (watch your temp gage though!)

It sounds like you need more traction. If you have a ballast box, you could rig that to the 3PH since you're pulling with the draw bar (you are using the draw bar, correct?)
It might help to dig or break up the dirt on the side opposite of the pull. This may aid in the brush pulling up and out.

Make sure your wife has her belt on and your ROPS is unfolded.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Sounds like you're basically doing it right - use the rpm you need while pulling, not exceeding your rated RPM, and then reduce throttle to some sort of idle while not working the tractor. I would not go alway the way to 0 throttle at least with a new tractor, per the advice of my Deere dealer - but some idle a little above the low idle is fine, and it sounds like that's what you're doing.

Is there any way you can cut some or all of the roots before pulling, to ease the pull? Or would that simply cause regrowth? I don't deal with sagebrush here in Michigan.

As for your sagebrush problem, I think a John Deere 1050C, or a CAT D9 or D11 would do wonders (and I'm avoiding the word you said to avoid).

 

[EdC]

Roy

We are definitely using the draw bar, my wife is belted in and the ROPS is extended, after 28 years in the AF working with explosives I am a bit of a safety nut.

I don't have a ballast box but did have the scraper blade on for additional weight. Guess I need to add the ballast box to the List.

Z, you are right, you did not mention D8.

Sagebrush, at least the variety here, will come back from the root. Takes awhil but it does.

Thanks for answering the big question I had about the idling down between heavy use. I appreciate it.

 

[mars1952]

Have a question for all of you that are a LOT more familiar with operating diesels than I am. My wife and I have been pulling sage brush out of the field in front of our house. I wrap the chain around the trunk and my wife runs the tractor pulling the sagebrush out. Some of the big plants are a strain for our 2320 and in a lot of cases we are spinning the rear wheels.

Now on to the question. We have the throttle at about 2900 rpm but when there is going to be a bit of time, 5 minutes or more, in between pulling plants out, say for loading the truck to take the stuff to where we burn it, I throttle the tractor back to about 1600 rpm or so. Is that the right way to operate the tractor or am I messing up?

Also would be really interested in a cure for sage brush that does not include the phrase D8.

Thanks

When you pull a tree/scrub/stump going forward with at tractor the center of gravity is transfered to the rear of the tractor. The rear wheels become the pivot point. Rear rollover becomes a possiblity. If you add ballast you need to add it to the front of the tractor. If you have a FEL put some rocks or dirt in the bucket. Loaded rear tires or axle weights will help with traction but increased traction also increases the possibility of rear rollover. A box blade or any 3PH implement with a rigid hook up on the rear should prevent any rear rollover.
I pull scrub and small trees with my JD 4300 using this method: I use a short piece of chain hooked to the top link hook of my imatch. I lift the rock shaft to pull the scrub I do not drive forward. Some times I have to do two pulls to get out deep roots. Again weight on the front of the tractor helps keep all four wheels on the ground. When I have to pull large scrub or even trees up to six inches I use my 4X4 pick-up. My pick-up weighs almost two and a half times as much as my tractor and I can put weight in the bed. Rear Rollover is almost impossible in a pick-up but you could snap a chain. I use a grade 80 chain and hooks. In case of a snapped chain I have a small tire tied to the chain at about the middle.
Idling the tractor at zero throttle for 15 minutes will not hurt it. It takes about 5-15 minutes of zero throttle idle time to use as much fuel as it takes to start the diesel. Every time you start your diesel unburnt fuel works its way past your rings and into the oil. Also a diesel engine needs to be warm to run at peak efficacy on a hot day the tractor can sit longer without cooling down. Another factor to consider is that on a new tractor every hour on the meter takes at least $25 off the resale value. So you have to take all these factors into account when you decide whether to let the tractor idle or shut it off. When you do decide to idle your tractor set the throttle to zero. If the tractor needed to idle at 1500 RPM John Deere would recommend that the zero throttle be set to 1500 RPM.
Good Luck, Marshall

 

[Z-Michigan]

When you do decide to idle your tractor set the throttle to zero. If the tractor needed to idle at 1500 RPM John Deere would recommend that the zero throttle be set to 1500 RPM.
Good Luck, Marshall

I was going based on the advice of my Deere dealer, who gave me a lengthy explanation of a problem called "Wet stack" that he says happens with new diesels that are left to idle at lowest speed for any length of time, without being used hard for most of their time. This is from a Deere dealer that sells mostly ag equipment and has 8 locations. I don't have any other information to confirm this claim.

 

[mars1952]

I was going based on the advice of my Deere dealer, who gave me a lengthy explanation of a problem called "Wet stack" that he says happens with new diesels that are left to idle at lowest speed for any length of time, without being used hard for most of their time. This is from a Deere dealer that sells mostly ag equipment and has 8 locations. I don't have any other information to confirm this claim.

I have done a little research on " wet stacking" using Google. It seems that wet stacking is a condition that occurs at high idle low load conditions in stand by generators mostly in very cold weather. High idle in this case means that the engine is run continuously (days on end) at a high idle speed so that there is less lag when standby power is called for. When you follow these links and read for yourself please note that the articles all say that the problem of wet stacking occurs at "high idle". Go to any truck stop at night and you will see row after row of big diesels idling all night. In recent years there has been a movement to encourage truckers to not idle their engines all night but the reasons are pollution and fuel use not Wet Stacking.
Check out these links:
Read the middle of this page
The Effects of Long Term High Idle Operation on Diesel Engines.
Load Banks for Prevention of Wet-Stacking in Diesel Generator Sets
Wikipedia Wet Stacking
When you start a cold diesel engine small amounts of unburnt fuel go into the exhaust and engine oil. Wet Stacking seems to occur when the engine is at high idle and or cold. If the temperatures are very low and the tractor engine is not staying warm then you might get some Wet stacking at low idle but not any more than you would by cold starting the engine. I shut my engine off if I am not going to be using it for awhile but I try to keep the engine warm. If it is really cold I put cardboard in front of the radiator.
Good Luck, Marshall
P.S. I left out all the links to forums since most of them are just some ones opinion and not backed up by any evidence.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Very useful information, thanks Marshall. Another example of why this board is so useful. Not sure whether I misunderstood the dealer guy or if he misunderstood how to avoid the problem.

So, with that information, I will be idling only at the minimum speed, and trying to moderate my idle time - no more than 5-10 minutes without work in between.

 

[mars1952]

Very useful information, thanks Marshall. Another example of why this board is so useful. Not sure whether I misunderstood the dealer guy or if he misunderstood how to avoid the problem.

So, with that information, I will be idling only at the minimum speed, and trying to moderate my idle time - no more than 5-10 minutes without work in between.

That sounds like a good plan. We all tend to get overly attached to our tractors and act like mother hens over them.
Marshall

 

[LWB]

Along the same lines, but I haven't it seen mentioned here before, my JD dealer recommends either off road fuel or upper gear lube. He says a lot of the CUT's he sees in the shop have "dry diesel" (over the road fuel) related problems. I didn't know there was a difference, except for the dye and the price.