Newbie quesstion Proper operation of Diesels

[mars1952]

Mars1952:

I would not recommend running B100 in a tractor especially in cold weather. NH recommends up to B20 only. I had enough trouble with diesel gelling with ULSD this winter when temperatures dropped into the teens and moreso when the temperatures dropped into the single digits or lower. People running biodiesel had even more difficulties. I used a "double shot" of Power Service (white bottle) to manage my gelling challenges as well as increase the "lubricity" of my ULSD. Another thing to consider is that both ULSD and bioddiesel tend to "lift" the sediment/junk/residue in your tank and fuel lines which can lead to fuel line, injector, and fuel filter clogs. Tractors do not like gelling and/or fuel line clogs . I would suggest that you check the numerous threads in the TBN Fuel & Lubricants Forum especially those posts by DieselPower (I apologize to the other informed contributors and would have referenced you guys as well, but I am not home and operating off someone else's computer.). I would also advise caution when attaching anything to your drawbar. Jay

Hi Jay: Here in Western North Carolina I haven't had any trouble with Gelling in my 1999 JD 4300 tractor or my 2001 F350 PowerStroke. I'm sure that occasionally it gets cold enough to cause gelling but when it is really cold I stay inside. If I buy any biodiesel I will ask the supplier what they do about cold weather blending.
Good Luck, Marshall

 

[jbrumberg]

Hi Jay: Here in Western North Carolina I haven't had any trouble with Gelling in my 1999 JD 4300 tractor or my 2001 F350 PowerStroke. I'm sure that occasionally it gets cold enough to cause gelling but when it is really cold I stay inside. If I buy any biodiesel I will ask the supplier what they do about cold weather blending.
Good Luck, Marshall

Marshall: I have had no real problems with Power Service (white bottle) added to my ULSD once I got the "mix" right for the temperature. I will run Power Service all season but with smaller concentrations. Some of the contributors to TBN who really appear to know their stuff have indicate that there are several additives in the marketplace that can be added to biodiesel safely. I would check with your supplier. I got an earful when I talked to mine this winter about the improper mix coming out of the refineries (pour point = 7 degrees F was a joke). I wish I was home so I could review my notes. Jay

 

[IslandTractor]

When you pull a tree/scrub/stump going forward with at tractor the center of gravity is transfered to the rear of the tractor. The rear wheels become the pivot point. Rear rollover becomes a possiblity.

Rollover would only occur if the chain were attached to a point on or above the rear axle. If you use the drawbar which is always below the axle then you really shouldn't worry about rear rollover. Adding weight to the front is more difficult and expensive generally (other than loading up the FEL). Also, adding weight forward of the front axle would tend to bring the rear wheels off the ground and defeat the intent of adding weight to increase rear wheel traction. Even with 4x4 drive the most traction is coming from the big rear wheels so you'd really rather focus on getting weight on the rear axle.

 

[mars1952]

Rollover would only occur if the chain were attached to a point on or above the rear axle. If you use the drawbar which is always below the axle then you really shouldn't worry about rear rollover.

Are you certain enough about that to stake someones life on it? Before the invention of the 3PH many farmers were killed when their draw bar pulled plows hit an immovable object and the tractors rolled over to the rear. I personally know a man that was killed while trying to pull a stump with the tractor's draw bar. On all the tractors that I have ever seen the draw bar is below the axle.

Adding weight to the front is more difficult and expensive generally (other than loading up the FEL). Also, adding weight forward of the front axle would tend to bring the rear wheels off the ground and defeat the intent of adding weight to increase rear wheel traction. Even with 4x4 drive the most traction is coming from the big rear wheels so you'd really rather focus on getting weight on the rear axle.

Watch these tractor pull videos. All of the hookups are below the rear axle and even the tractors that have weights way out front still lift the front axles off the ground. It all depends on how the tractors are set up. The two wheel drive tractors want to have the weight all on the rear wheels when they pull. The four wheel drive tractors try to keep all the wheels on the ground.
Euro Cup Bettborn 2006 Tractor Pulling Pro Stock 1
Full pull - tractor pull
Tractor pull in DK
I realize that the tractors in the videos are not CUTs but the physics are the same.
The whole idea here is for Ed's wife to keep all four wheels on the ground and under the tractor
Good Luck, Marshall

 

[Z-Michigan]

Very cool videos.

I think what's happening with those is the torque reaction - the tires are being turned one way with so much power that the torque (equal and opposite reaction) on the tractor is lifting it off the ground, despite pulling below the axle (which should counter that force).

I'm not an engineer or physicist, so I'm not certain this is what's happening, but I think so.

CUT's don't generate that kind of force. I will NOT say I'm certain enough to bet someone's life on it, but I definitely don't expect a CUT to flip over when pulling from the drawbar.

Experts?

 

[EdC]

I'll certainly look into the firehose around the chain, that makes a lot of sense. Other than that we will take it slow and just be careful, making sure we keep pulling from below the axle and watch for impact loading on the chain.

 

[RoyJackson]

"Are you certain enough about that to stake someones life on it? Before the invention of the 3PH many farmers were killed when their draw bar pulled plows hit an immovable object and the tractors rolled over to the rear. I personally know a man that was killed while trying to pull a stump with the tractor's draw bar. On all the tractors that I have ever seen the draw bar is below the axle."

I guess we should say that hooking to the draw bar reduces the possibility of a rear rollover.
Nothing replaces common sense. However, use of the ROPS and seat belt dramatically reduces the possibility of injury.
It sounds like Ed and the Mrs. are following the safety rules as much as possible. They may find their tractor isn't heavy enough to handle some of the brush pulling and have to determine another method.

Although the tractor pull videos were nice, those machines have a power to weight ratio that far exceeds our CUTs or any standard utility tractor.

This link is a bit more realistic for our machines:
Tractor Overturn, H.J. Sommer III

 

[em14]

IMHO there is little need to idle a diesel for any lenght of time ... including while they are being fueled at a stop. But seems not to be the popular stand today. Here is an interesting bit from Banks about todays diesels that I think you may like to read. Turbo Diesel Fact & Fiction | Banks Power: Turbo Diesel Fact & Fiction by C.J. Baker
Leo

 

[Nuru]

"Are you certain enough about that to stake someones life on it? Before the invention of the 3PH many farmers were killed when their draw bar pulled plows hit an immovable object and the tractors rolled over to the rear. I personally know a man that was killed while trying to pull a stump with the tractor's draw bar. On all the tractors that I have ever seen the draw bar is below the axle."

I guess we should say that hooking to the draw bar reduces the possibility of a rear rollover.
Nothing replaces common sense. However, use of the ROPS and seat belt dramatically reduces the possibility of injury.
It sounds like Ed and the Mrs. are following the safety rules as much as possible. They may find their tractor isn't heavy enough to handle some of the brush pulling and have to determine another method.

Although the tractor pull videos were nice, those machines have a power to weight ratio that far exceeds our CUTs or any standard utility tractor.

This link is a bit more realistic for our machines:
Tractor Overturn, H.J. Sommer III

thanks Roy.

 

[Nuru]

Thanks EM,.

 

[AKfish]

This is an interesting thread.... kinda over here and over there and covers some interesting sagebrush!

I mix Power Service (white bottle) year-around for all my diesels (JD970, Chevy 2500HD Duramax and Ford E350 7.3L PowerStroke) with the advent of the new ULSD. No gelling and more uummpphhf.

Question: Why yank and jerk on the sagebrush? How about a multi-tooth scarifier or big, single tooth ripper mounted on the 3pt?

Or, a heavy box blade with the teeth extended as low as they go and tilt the box-blade upward?

B range --- 1,800 rpm...

AKfish

 

[EdC]

Roy
You are exactly right; nothing replaces common sense. Everything has a risk but if I try to not rush and think things through that has worked so far. The main thing is not to put anyone in harms way. Heck, my wife is the only person that would put up with me.

AK
The reason I don't scrape these pesky things out is rocks. We have a LOT of rocks here, lava, some basalt, and some boulders that have been here since the glaciers receded. I would not know if I was scraping a little rock out of the way or bringing my tractor to a screeching halt when we tried to drag up a mountain.

When we come across something too big for the tractor I will hook up the tow strap to the pickup and yank it out. Don't want to abuse my new JD toy...err tool

 

[RollingsFarms]

I haven't heard of this. Can you be more specific about his concerns?

I'm wondering if he's talking about the low sulphur diesel being sold at stations now. This fuel is designed for low emissions. The lower sulphur content reduces the lubricity of the fuel, apparently.

I did a search. I reckon this article may answer my question:
Latest Penn State College of Agricultural Sciences News

Any thoughts on additives?

i put "Diesel Kleen" (i think that's how its spelled) in every other tank. it comes in a white bottle and i buy mine at any auto parts store or wal-mart. that's the only additive i've used.

 

[nosliw]

stanadyne performance formula every tank

jd 990
GMC duramax
VW TDI jetta

all get the treatment

 

[Gizmo36]

When I am pulling tree's ,I use a wheel rim I put the chain around the trunk of the tree . Then I put the rim up close to the tree . Let the chain go over the rim then to the tractor it will pull the tree up real easy.

 

[AKfish]

Hmm... that's a new one on me. Never heard of using a tire rim to pull up trees. What keeps the rim from just sliding out or skidding off to the side from the base of the tree?

Earlier post from RoyJackson said something about off-road and the new ULSD on-road diesel... wondering if there is a difference between the two? Would home delivery fuel (No. 1 or 2 depending upon season) be higher sulfur than the diesel at the pump?

AKfish

 

[Z-Michigan]

Would home delivery fuel (No. 1 or 2 depending upon season) be higher sulfur than the diesel at the pump?

AKfish

If you're talking about heating oil, then yes, it can be higher sulfur than even offroad diesel. It's also less refined and all in all is probably not a good choice for any tractor you want to keep.

 

[mars1952]

Hi: We have basically hijacked this thread to discuss Rollovers. I would like to invite you all to a thread I started specifically to talk over Tractor Rollover Myths and Facts
Good Luck, Marshall