Newbie questions: Draft control?

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( When Ferguson won his lawsuit against Ford, they changed to draft sensing through the lower links. )</font>

Hmm.. you sure about that /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Every ford with a 3pt up thru the hundred series still had the toplink sensing connection and big draft spring. ( I can post links to online parts houses speccing things.. like that draft spring and hyd top cover draft components from 53 and up.. that's post ferguson.... ) starting somewhere in the thousand series they switched to adifferent topling sensing system that did not have the big visible spring, but did have a compression sensitive pivoting toplink connection. This is evident up thru my 1975 ford 5000, and even on my 2002 NH 7610s. I've never seen anything but fixed lower link pins on a for tractor... with connecting pins or clevis's on the axle trumpets. You can hit online parts houses and see the hyd top cover parts for the draft sensing components..

I do believe that some other manufacturers used some other draft sensing hitches.. perhaps casi/IH/allis chalmers.. not sure.. havn't messed with their proprietary hitches mutc ( snap. eagle, etc.. ).. But ford hitches didn't use lower link draft sensing... ( can't vouch for the industrial models... not as much exp with them ).

Soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

OK, but Ford was forced to CHANGE the way the draft sensing worked after the lawsuit. That was the result of Ferguson holding patents on his idea. The change took place with the NAA/Jube. I THOUGHT they went to lower link sensing. The sensing wouldn't be through the lower link attachment to the trumpets, but through th e rockshaft. That would still enable the draft sensing to be handled through the lift cover as opposed to the pins in the trumpets. By the time the suit was settled, most of Fergusons patents were starting to expire anyway.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Letme add this. Don't forget I've had a number of Fords too. (Two 3000's, a 5000, and a 3400 Ind.) Very familiar with their 3-point system.

 

[5030]

hsvhobbit:

Forget the draft control. The 5030 isn't capable of tillage anyway, well, small scale tillage.....

Get the remotes and forget anything you ever heard about draft control. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Soundguy]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The sensing wouldn't be through the lower link attachment to the trumpets, but through th e rockshaft. That would still enable the draft sensing to be handled through the lift cover as opposed to the pins in the trumpets. )</font>

Yeah.. but the topcover 3pt lift arm rockshaft was not part of the draft sensing.. no feedback there.. the big 3pt lift arms were simply couple dto the hyd piston thru a big dogbone, and the piston rode free in the cyl bor, under the hyd cover... toplink draft sensing was transmitting all the feedback...

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Letme add this. Don't forget I've had a number of Fords too. (Two 3000's, a 5000, and a 3400 Ind.) Very familiar with their 3-point system.
)</font>

Um.. apparently not... and I don't care for the pee'ing contest.. but the draft sensing was from linkages under the top hyd cover via tension/compression on the toplink rocker, via loads from the 3pt geometry... ( not any specific thing to do with the lower links, except geometry, and a pivot point... ) I've got every ford parts manual for agricultural tractors from 39 up thru 75. The hyd/topcover guts were the same from 39 thru 46, changed in 47 for the 8n to add position control. So far still using the same basic design of a 2.85gpm scotch yoke hyd 'belly' pump. After the lawsuit, ford had to change the hyd pump, location, and the valving. Instead of using a input valve that essentiall choked of fthe intake to the belly pump.. ford went to an engine mounted live hyd pump that used an unloading valve. The pumps were originally a 2.8 gpm vane pump.. but they were dicey, and ford went to a piston pump. They made retro's for the 52-53-54 naa of a similar flow to the oem 2.8 gpm pump, and the new piston pump for the hundred series was a 4gpm job.. though both piston pumps were bolt up similar, if you swapped from vane to piston you had to swap manifold/tubes.

Ford dinked with the draft controlls under the hyd top cover just a tad... changed some geometry between the naa and hundred series controlls.. but they esentiall worked the same. And the unloading valve, in various forms, was used up untill modern times. Hit Smiths used ford parts And you can see a few old pumps, and the draft control linkages. the draft springs and linkages change a bit on the 53-54 to the 55 and up.. but are very similar.

My point was that the lower links were just anchors, and integral part of the 3pt geometry.. all the draft sensing was via the linkages under the top cover, via the toplink. And I've got lots of fords too...

Soundguy

 

[KiotiJohn]

I think you would be an excellent candiate to buy Muhammad's (One of the TBN creators) book. It tells a multitude about what compact tractors are, can use, and what you may need in your situation. It saves a lot of time searching for information, in a concise document you can read on your computer, or print out as needed.
I agree, you don't NEED draft control unless you're going to use a plough (plow).
John

 

[hsvhobbit]

WOW, Thanks for the advice and help guys. So I can pass on the Draft control since at most I'm looking at small scale tillage. It does sound like a 'top and tilt' setup IS a good thing to get.

The L5030 comes with one rear hyd control according to the salesman. Any suggestions on how many extra I should see about getting added?

And as far as knowing what a plow is and what it does? Yup, THAT much I know, just didn't have a clue what a 'moldboard' plow was/is /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DUMBDOG]

Top and tilt will require a total of two remotes, so one extra. This would be for a standard box blade. I have three on my 4630, yet I have not used any yet, but plan to.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The L5030 comes with one rear hyd control according to the salesman. Any suggestions on how many extra I should see about getting added?)</font>
You could just use the one outlet if you only wanted to use TOP. That would adjust the length of the top link your tractor, allowing you to adjust the aggressiveness of say a box blade. If you wanted to dig in more, you would adjust the top link to move the rippers into a more aggressive stance.
You would need to add another outlet to operate the TILT, which would adjust the height of your right hand lift arm allowing the implement to cut more on one side than the other, etc.
You could always start out with just TOP and add tilt later, but you may find it less expensive to order the tractor with both outlets. Of course, you will need to make sure the spools are provided so that you have something to operate the remotes with.
TOP will probably be your most used function as it can and will be used for just about anything you put on the hitch.
John

 

[daTeacha]

Getting back to the question about the plow, the "moldboard" is part of your basic dirt plow. It also has a plowpoint and a plowshare. One cuts through the soil, another keeps things more or less in a straight path and the third rolls the newly cut soil over, turning the top layer of plant matter under and exposing the fresh soil for discing, harrowing, planting, etc. The moldboards can have extensions added to them like little wings to increase their effectiveness in some conditions. You can also get a disc that runs in front of the point to cut the sod so it can be turned more easily.

A lot of plows are sitting quietly rusting into oblivion since no-till farming has become popular, so if you want one, figure out what your tractor will pull in your soil and go to local auctions. You can probably find one for close to junk metal prices.