Buying Advice Newbie Questons

[MossRoad]

I had a video on TBN at one time of me going through an old field on our place with our front mounted brush hog. I stopped in the middle of the cut, got out of the seat, climbed up on top of the canopy, and had to reach UP to grab the top of the weeds I was cutting. The canopy is about 5'5" high. I'm 6' and I had to reach UP, so the weeds were at least 12' high. I cut them to the ground in one pass with this "little" machine. :laughing: The video is no longer available. I'll see if I can find it elsewhere.

Anyhow, click on my little tractor icon in my signature, and that will take you to a page with some videos that are old a grainy. But you'll get to see it in action.

 

[Barryh]

>>>>> I have been told that the front axle on a SCUT pivots <<<<<<

Speaking of the SCUT front axle something else to think about.. Here's my little Kubota BX after doing a few years of heavy lifting and working around my house.

I had to take the front axle out and do a rebuild. It chewed up the large pivot bushings / seals and stared leaking oil. Would make screeching noises when going over uneven terrain. I always had a bad feeling I might over stress or crack the front axle. So when maneuvering around with heavy loads I felt I had to baby it. When I say heavy loads it would only lift a little over 400 pounds.

Don't get me wrong. The Kubota was a great little light duty worker for around my property it saved my back many times loved the diesel engine. Great for hauling firewood and rocks. But pound for pound no where near as heavy duty, or versatile as the Power Trac.

The difference to me ? I like to picture a large shinny black worker ant. It will pick up objects twice it's size and walk off with them. That's a PT in my mind.

I started out with the smaller PT-180 and compared to the Kubota it was a little tank. Missed it so much I ended up selling my Kubota and came back home to a Power Trac.

I just recently bought a cool red vintage low hour 1995 - 1425 .. It will get a few upgrades over the coming years. And being an older tractor it does need a few replacement components. But I have to say it feels great to have another one parked in my garage.

Just speaking for myself it can't be beat for an all around general purpose tractor.

 

[PTBill]

>>>>> I have been told that the front axle on a SCUT pivots <<<<<<

Speaking of the SCUT front axle something else to think about.. Here's my little Kubota BX after doing a few years of heavy lifting and working around my house.

I had to take the front axle out and do a rebuild. It chewed up the large pivot bushings / seals and stared leaking oil. Would make screeching noises when going over uneven terrain. I always had a bad feeling I might over stress or crack the front axle. So when maneuvering around with heavy loads I felt I had to baby it. When I say heavy loads it would only lift a little over 400 pounds.

Don't get me wrong. The Kubota was a great little light duty worker for around my property it saved my back many times loved the diesel engine. Great for hauling firewood and rocks. But pound for pound no where near as heavy duty, or versatile as the Power Trac.

The difference to me ? I like to picture a large shinny black worker ant. It will pick up objects twice it's size and walk off with them. That's a PT in my mind.

I started out with the smaller PT-180 and compared to the Kubota it was a little tank. Missed it so much I ended up selling my Kubota and came back home to a Power Trac.

I just recently bought a cool red vintage low hour 1995 - 1425 .. It will get a few upgrades over the coming years. And being an older tractor it does need a few replacement components. But I have to say it feels great to have another one parked in my garage.

Just speaking for myself it can't be beat for an all around general purpose tractor.

Barryh, are the wheels on the PT mounted on wheel motor shafts? If so, do you feel they are stronger than the Kubota front axle?

 

[PTBill]

I had a video on TBN at one time of me going through an old field on our place with our front mounted brush hog. I stopped in the middle of the cut, got out of the seat, climbed up on top of the canopy, and had to reach UP to grab the top of the weeds I was cutting. The canopy is about 5'5" high. I'm 6' and I had to reach UP, so the weeds were at least 12' high. I cut them to the ground in one pass with this "little" machine. :laughing: The video is no longer available. I'll see if I can find it elsewhere.

Anyhow, click on my little tractor icon in my signature, and that will take you to a page with some videos that are old a grainy. But you'll get to see it in action.

Thanks for posting the pictures and videos - I have looked at them on several occasions. Also, your thoughts on the PT drivetrain has been helpful. It would be great to see a PT425 and a SCUT on the same obstacle course to highlight their strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Barryh]

>>Barryh, are the wheels on the PT mounted on wheel motor shafts? If so, do you feel they are stronger than the Kubota front axle?

Yes they are and yes I do... The Kubota front axle was made of cast.

That's one of the many reason's I went back to a PT.. At least on the smaller BX series.. That's all I have real time experience with. I think the PT is tougher in general..

Another reason I like the PT over a small tractor is like MR said. The bottom is like a contentious steel skid plate.

On the Kubota underneath I had hose's and a cheap plastic cooling fan that were really exposed to sticks and rocks while trekking through the woods. The little fan itself cost over $600 bucks at the time.. And to replace it would have been a real pain in the *** .

I ended up making a custom skid plate out of plywood for mine to protect everything under the tractor. Once again all just my opinion..

 

[woodlandfarms]

So a little story.. A friend called, asked me to help him with his Kubota work. Not sure what he has but it isn't huge, it is small, gentleman farmer type machine. Anyway, I go bounding arcros a very messed up meadow, lots of limbs, logs blah blah blah. The guy with the Kubota was giving me heck about "low ground clearance" He comes bounding behind me and then nothing.. I turn to see him dead stopped. Big ole limb caught a front tire and jammed right through his hydraulic lines.

As noted, PT has a smooth, hard steel bottom that is going to take more than I know to get through. I pulled is Kubota out of the meadow for him to work on. Went down and grappled out all the stuff.

A big note on the PT no one has mentioned yet I think. Downforce. On a regular tractor you really don't have downforce, so thing like a trencher, post hole digger, those things us gravity and a prayer to get them to work. PT, first, is Hydraulic so in my opinion the implements are a lot more powerful than a similar sized tractor. Second, you can push your implement into the ground. Around here I can punch an average of 5 post holes to my budies tractor driven 1. Oh, and I built my own post hole digger and stump grinder, saved sooooo much money.

 

[PTBill]

I have spent time on the Deere SCUT forums as well as the PT forum with a focus on reliability. I was surprised by the number on complaints on the Deere SCUT forums - several engine problems, drive over deck quick attach issues (many), bolts falling off, and dealer service issues. On the PT forum it seemed that at least 70 percent of the complaints were with the Subaru Engine in the PT-425. Are newer PT-425s (last couple of years) more reliable than previous generation PTs if we take the engine out of the picture?

Also, I read some posts about "leak down". I had visions of raising up a fork, getting off the PT and putting several pieces of scaffolding on the fork to carry around to the side of the house. Are the "leak down" issues still current?

 

[Marks481]

Also, I read some posts about "leak down". I had visions of raising up a fork, getting off the PT and putting several pieces of scaffolding on the fork to carry around to the side of the house. Are the "leak down" issues still current?

My 2005 PT-422 leak-down occurs over 10s of minutes. I can raise the implement to full extension, mess with whatever it is, etc, with the engine off, without any problem.

 

[SpringHollow]

You can always add needle valves to the FEL circuits when you need to lock it in place. I close mine when in that situation and it works well.

Ken

 

[MossRoad]

Thanks for posting the pictures and videos - I have looked at them on several occasions. Also, your thoughts on the PT drivetrain has been helpful. It would be great to see a PT425 and a SCUT on the same obstacle course to highlight their strengths and weaknesses.

Yeah, that would be fun indeed!

Several folks on here have/had conventional tractors and PTs. They'll tell you honestly the similarities and differences as well as the pros and cons of both types of machines.

 

[MossRoad]

As far as leak down goes, I'd never leave an implement up in the air unattended, machine running or not. And I'd never get my body under an implement that wasn't supported by jacks or a chainfall/hoist, etc...

Mine will leak down with the engine off in about 10 minutes. With it running, I don't think it leaks down at all. Never timed it.

What I'd be most worried about is something happening to the joystick or its valve to release and the implement come crashing down and crushing me.

I do lift the mower deck all the way up and tilt it back, so I can grease the spindles. But only my arms are under the machine. I keep the parking brake set and the motor at a high idle and make sure no curious kids (or adults) are around to do a "What's this do?" to the joystick! I also lift the mower deck and use a garden hoe to scrape off the underside of the deck. But really, if I need to actually work under the deck, I just roll it over to the garage wall so the rear wheels are near the wall, block the rear wheels and then just grab the front of the deck and lift if up against the wall. Its not that heavy.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I built a cage for my wife.... wait,, hmmm. I built a bucket for my wife..... wait.... jeez... OK. I built a platform with rails for my wife (no pole) that I put on the pickle forks and we use it to trim out our orchard. Don't want to hear it from the safety police please, its my wife, divorce is expensive. Anyway, what I am tryingto get at is leakdown, even with the engine running we notice a 5 to 7" drop in 10 minutes plus a tilt in the basket. Some tractors you can put up in the air and they don't leakdown, my PT does. Heavier the quicker, mower will be on the ground in a half hour

 

[SpringHollow]

Yeah, that would be fun indeed!

Several folks on here have/had conventional tractors and PTs. They'll tell you honestly the similarities and differences as well as the pros and cons of both types of machines.

I think there are lots of posts in this forum telling the pluses and minuses. CUTs are much better at farming and perhaps better if you are unwilling to do any maintenance nor have any shops nearby that will do the work for you. CUTs use less fuel/hr than my PT. Other than ground contact work like farming, box blade work, etc., I can not think of anything a CUT could do better than my PT. My experience with CUTs is 25 - 45 HP and the only PT I have experience with is the PT1850. Others will have to speak to smaller PT's.

Ken

 

[MossRoad]

I replaced an IH2500b 8000# 50PTO HP tractor loader with my PT425.... :laughing: TRUE! Looking back on it, the IH was way too big for what I needed to do and the PT would have done the job. But man, it sure was fun driving up to 10" trees with that IH and just running them down with the FEL!!!! :thumbsup:

 

[PTBill]

Thanks again to everyone who has given their time to answer my questions and yes, I have another one. My older zero turn mower has a professional series 20 hp Kohler motor and weighs 675 pounds. I notice on small inclines (maybe 10 degrees) going up the driveway a loss in power . It makes the hill without a problem but the loss is noticeable and this is with just 2 wheel motors. It only has 130 hours so I believe it's operating at close to new. Top speed spec is 7 mph.

In comparison, it seems the PT425 weighing in at 1300 pounds (almost twice my mower in weight) plus attachments, 4 wheel motors, and larger pumps would be underpowered at 25 hp. Would a PT425 with an empty bucket see a noticeable loss on a 10 degree incline? 20 degree incline?

Bill

 

[MossRoad]

10 degree with empty bucket, probably not. 20 degree, probably. In the case of the PT, if you're going up an incline and the unit seems to be slowing down, let UP on the treadle and go up slower. Have you tried something similar with your zero turn? Backing off on the directional speed control will put more power to the ground.

 

[PTBill]

Hi MossRoad,

I guess I have adjusted to a slower speed when going up hill (20 degrees) on my zero turn, although it was because a belt started slipping. It looks like I might have been killing two birds, stopping belt slippage and "putting more power to the ground" (which I didn't know about).

I have read several posts in the forums about you warning us not to ever get under the FEL. I wanted to thank you for this - as a newbie it is something I would try. In regards to braking safety, outside of taking both feet off the treadle on the PT425, there is no other braking system while moving? The parking brake is just some type of pin in hole system for when the PT is still?


Bill

 

[jfh28]

once you take your feet off the treadle momentum ceases pretty quickly........and to prevent any rolling if on a hill I drop the backhoe or the bucket.......if I'm on a steep section I'll push the bucket down until it lifts the front wheels off the ground........can't roll anywhere if the wheels are up in the air......haha........I was concerned about no brakes too when I first got my pt but quickly found that they really aren't needed....the treadle is pretty sensitive and you can reverse direction pretty fast if you find yourself heading for something you shouldn't be.....as for the parking brake......I haven't used mine since the first week I got the pt......just easier dropping the bucket.......Jack

 

[MossRoad]

What Jack said!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Going down a fairly steep hill on our property, I keep my left foot on the reverse treadle out of habit, but I've only had maybe a couple occasions in 14 years where I've had to hit the reverse rather than just letting up on the forward when I had a heavy load in the bucket. Most of the time, letting off the forward pedal too fast will jerk you to a stop uncomfortably fast. The hydraulics are that responsive.

Yes, the parking brake is just that... for parking. It won't stop you. If you engage it while you're moving you'll hear a loud tapping noise as the pins (one on each front wheel motor) slip past all of the holes in the wheel hub. It will engage if you slow the tractor with the pedals, but you'll be almost stopped before that happens.

The only thing I'd keep in the back of your mind is that a hydraulic hose could catastrophically break. Then you may free-wheel quickly I suppose. And if you're pointed towards a body of water, a steep drop-off, a tree, a house, a highway, etc... you'd better have a plan. But similar things can happen with conventional tractors. Prime example is a heavily loaded bucket, going down a hill forward, two-wheel drive, and the front load is heavy enough to reduce traction to the rear tires, and tractors don't have brakes on the front axles.... down the hill uncontrollably you go.

So you drop the bucket and try to tilt it forward so it stabs the ground and ejects you over the steering wheel!

Now if you have a mower out front instead of a bucket, and you try that, the mower has wheels, so you'll keep rolling down that hill! You could try to turn and hope you don't tip over. If you're buckled in keep your hands on the wheel and don't reach out or you'll break your arm on the ground. Just hang on and stay inside the ROPS and canopy. Chances are good you'll just land on your side if you tip. I've heard of a few PTs on their side, but have never heard of one going over. That ROPS and canopy used with the seat belt is your best bet.

 

[CobyRupert]

We always hear that one shouldn't risk their life and trust the hydraulics by going under a FEL or 3 pth implement.

How is that different than trusting your life to the brakes on your car from sending you over the cliff or into the busy intersection?

I wonder what percentage of vehicle brakes would leak down over 20 minutes if you tried to hold the vehicle on a steep hill with them?

The reason I don't go under my FEL or implements is I worry my wife be around and experience tells me that would be the day she gets curious about "What does this lever do?"