Newbie trying to pick the right LS for our needs

[charles todd]

HST is more upfront cost. More maintenance cost (fluids, filters).

If you are doing a lot of F/R work (loader work) a HST is nice. If you are mowing the back forty at a steady speed, it is pointless, creates more heat, and robs power. Also the HST lowers the PTO HP vs the gear drive of the same model (some over 5 HP). Also the hydraulic output (GPM) is usually lower as well because the HST shares the pumps. As long as one doesn't ride the clutch, I find it hard to believe a HST is more reliable than a gear drive. Not to mention the HIGH COST of out of warranty repairs vs a clutch replacement...

Tractors are much different than an automobile when it comes to operating a manual gear transmission. My wife cannot drive a manual automobile, but can operate a gear drive tractor, with very minimal training.

We all have opinions. This is mine. In order of most reliable. Gear, shuttle, power shuttle, HST, CVT.

CT

 

[danisiri]

HST is more upfront cost. More maintenance cost (fluids, filters).

If you are doing a lot of F/R work (loader work) a HST is nice. If you are mowing the back forty at a steady speed, it is pointless, creates more heat, and robs power. Also the HST lowers the PTO HP vs the gear drive of the same model (some over 5 HP). Also the hydraulic output (GPM) is usually lower as well because the HST shares the pumps. As long as one doesn't ride the clutch, I find it hard to believe a HST is more reliable than a gear drive. Not to mention the HIGH COST of out of warranty repairs vs a clutch replacement...

Tractors are much different than an automobile when it comes to operating a manual gear transmission. My wife cannot drive a manual automobile, but can operate a gear drive tractor, with very minimal training.

We all have opinions. This is mine. In order of most reliable. Gear, shuttle, power shuttle, HST, CVT.

CT

Thank you for the info!

 

[GManBart]

We all have opinions. This is mine. In order of most reliable. Gear, shuttle, power shuttle, HST, CVT.

CT

Yes, that's an opinion....one that many people disagree with, and one certainly not supported by years of posts here.

 

[GManBart]

Also the hydraulic output (GPM) is usually lower as well because the HST shares the pumps.

I was in a hurry when I commented previously and forgot to mention two pretty important things.

First off, the HST and hydraulic systems don't share pumps. The HST unit bolts to the back of the engine, and the pump is integral to the unit. The hydraulic pump for the FEL, remotes, 3pt etc, is a different pump that typically mounts to the front of the engine case.

I find it hard to believe a HST is more reliable than a gear drive. Not to mention the HIGH COST of out of warranty repairs vs a clutch replacement...

No offense, but you do realize that changing the clutch on a tractor frequently requires splitting the machine into two pieces? It's not like changing the clutch on an automobile and is very expensive. Go take a look at the schematics of a tractor with a shuttle shift transmission, then look at one with an HST unit, and you'll see why an HST unit can be just as reliable, or more reliable, than one with gears....there are so many more parts to anything with gears that it's no comparison.

Comments like these suggest opinions based on something other than knowing how tractors are actually put together.

I'll point out that I don't own anything with HST right now (in the past) so I'm not overly partial to either system, but some of the stuff being posted here is simply false.

 

[danisiri]

I was in a hurry when I commented previously and forgot to mention two pretty important things.

First off, the HST and hydraulic systems don't share pumps. The HST unit bolts to the back of the engine, and the pump is integral to the unit. The hydraulic pump for the FEL, remotes, 3pt etc, is a different pump that typically mounts to the front of the engine case.



No offense, but you do realize that changing the clutch on a tractor frequently requires splitting the machine into two pieces? It's not like changing the clutch on an automobile and is very expensive. Go take a look at the schematics of a tractor with a shuttle shift transmission, then look at one with an HST unit, and you'll see why an HST unit can be just as reliable, or more reliable, than one with gears....there are so many more parts to anything with gears that it's no comparison.

Comments like these suggest opinions based on something other than knowing how tractors are actually put together.

I'll point out that I don't own anything with HST right now (in the past) so I'm not overly partial to either system, but some of the stuff being posted here is simply false.

Thank you for the info. I am leaning to the middle of my range for now, a XU5065CPS - so we will have a power shuttle with enough PTO HP to drive most implements and a smaller baler should I decide to invest in those.

Planning to test drive some tractors this weekend!

 

[GManBart]

Thank you for the info. I am leaning to the middle of my range for now, a XU5065CPS - so we will have a power shuttle with enough PTO HP to drive most implements and a smaller baler should I decide to invest in those.

Planning to test drive some tractors this weekend!

That sounds like a smart idea, and test drives will tell you more than anything else can (plus they're fun!). Good luck!

 

[charles todd]

I was in a hurry when I commented previously and forgot to mention two pretty important things.

First off, the HST and hydraulic systems don't share pumps. The HST unit bolts to the back of the engine, and the pump is integral to the unit. The hydraulic pump for the FEL, remotes, 3pt etc, is a different pump that typically mounts to the front of the engine case.



No offense, but you do realize that changing the clutch on a tractor frequently requires splitting the machine into two pieces? It's not like changing the clutch on an automobile and is very expensive. Go take a look at the schematics of a tractor with a shuttle shift transmission, then look at one with an HST unit, and you'll see why an HST unit can be just as reliable, or more reliable, than one with gears....there are so many more parts to anything with gears that it's no comparison.

Comments like these suggest opinions based on something other than knowing how tractors are actually put together.

I'll point out that I don't own anything with HST right now (in the past) so I'm not overly partial to either system, but some of the stuff being posted here is simply false.

I was going to point out that no equipment in your signature contained a HST transmission. But I refrained, to prevent a food fight.

You are correct about the HST pump, I was incorrect. But some tractors have smaller hyd pumps to compensate for the extra HP required to power the HST. They both take power from the prime mover and ALL HST tractors have lower PTO shaft HP given the same engine in a gear vs HST transmission in the same model tractor. PTO HP is more important to me than a foot pedal to control direction and speed.

I fully understand automobiles and tractors share relatively few components... I am not offended, but I have a little more experience than you may know... I have replaced a tractor clutch. I have replaced two, one on a Farmall 504 and one on a John Deere 3020. It is really not difficult to do if you have the correct tools and know-how. The third we hired out due to lack of time last year. Even then it only cost $700 on a cabbed Ford 6600. How much is a HST??? About 1/2 the cost of the tractor.

I realize many people on TBN are hobby users and/or small acreage owners. HST is fine for that. But for farming of any scale a gear, shuttle, powershift is a proven method of propulsion. How many high hour vintage HST's are around vs gear? IH Hydro's are scarce as hens teeth!


To the OP, I was not trying to create confusion. I was just conveying my opinion.

I did test drive a XU5065CPS and a P7010C. The power shuttle was nice, but the clutch was grabby. The cab was louder than the P-series and it felt like I was in a phone booth. The A/C is important in the Gulf States, the A/C felt stronger in the P-series as well. Most people on TBN don't need or want a P-series. It is a full sized utility ag tractor. But it was only about $3k more than the XU-series and I could use the extra weight, HP, and loader capacity.

Good luck and fill us in on the test drive!

CT

 

[danisiri]

I did test drive a XU5065CPS and a P7010C. The power shuttle was nice, but the clutch was grabby. The cab was louder than the P-series and it felt like I was in a phone booth. The A/C is important in the Gulf States, the A/C felt stronger in the P-series as well. Most people on TBN don't need or want a P-series. It is a full sized utility ag tractor. But it was only about $3k more than the XU-series and I could use the extra weight, HP, and loader capacity.

Good luck and fill us in on the test drive!

CT

Yeah, the base P-series and the top end XU are pretty close in price. I have to drive them and see what works best for us. I am not in a rush to buy...just trying to get an idea of what we like.

 

[danisiri]

Went out for the test drive today. I drove a XR 4046 in shuttle shift and in a HST. The HST made a lot of grinding noises as I changed directions. The shuttle shift really worked my knee after a few minutes. I guess I am not as young as I used to be, lol. The sales rep told me that maybe the hydraulic fluid was not warmed up enough on the HST. I really would have liked to have tried the power shuttle, but they didn't have one there.

The test drive didn't help me much to decide which one I want though. Since I have pretty much decided to have someone else do the baling, I just need to be able to move soil and bales arounds, maintain my gravel road, and dig post holes.

The wife also had a bit of sticker shock with everything too. While we can afford a big tractor, it doesn't mean we want to spend that much either.

Hmmm. I think I may go with a smaller one now and if we really like it and find the need, we will get something bigger.

Thank you everyone for all the advice!

 

[charles todd]

Went out for the test drive today. I drove a XR 4046 in shuttle shift and in a HST. The HST made a lot of grinding noises as I changed directions. The shuttle shift really worked my knee after a few minutes. I guess I am not as young as I used to be, lol. The sales rep told me that maybe the hydraulic fluid was not warmed up enough on the HST. I really would have liked to have tried the power shuttle, but they didn't have one there.

The test drive didn't help me much to decide which one I want though. Since I have pretty much decided to have someone else do the baling, I just need to be able to move soil and bales arounds, maintain my gravel road, and dig post holes.

The wife also had a bit of sticker shock with everything too. While we can afford a big tractor, it doesn't mean we want to spend that much either.

Hmmm. I think I may go with a smaller one now and if we really like it and find the need, we will get something bigger.

Thank you everyone for all the advice!

Sounds like a solid plan! Keep us posted.

CT