NH and JD file suit
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Soundguy
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I wasn't saying that JD did have the right to sue based on a wide variety of color schemes.. I just pointed out that some companies do protect a specific color via copyright laws. Not sure if JD is going to be able to pull this one off. There are plenty of companies that do blue schemes.. and fo the large part, NH has been sitting on its hands.
One thing though.. as Deer and Co. is pretty much the largest ag equimpment company they will have some clout. Just like when the 'Mouse' ( disney ) sues somebody..... caries lotsa clout.
Will be interesting to see what happens. Personally , when I hear someone compare a chinese tractor with a yanmar, I know what they are doing.. trying to associate it with a proven line... I also think those dealers are pretty low too... However the average non-tractor literate person somewhere is gonna get snookered.
People need to read their sales disclosures very closely these days...
Soundguy
One thing though.. as Deer and Co. is pretty much the largest ag equimpment company they will have some clout. Just like when the 'Mouse' ( disney ) sues somebody..... caries lotsa clout.
Will be interesting to see what happens. Personally , when I hear someone compare a chinese tractor with a yanmar, I know what they are doing.. trying to associate it with a proven line... I also think those dealers are pretty low too... However the average non-tractor literate person somewhere is gonna get snookered.
People need to read their sales disclosures very closely these days...
Soundguy
MikeStuart
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>
People need to read their sales disclosures very closely these days...
<hr></blockquote>
You're right about that. When you see an " * " next to a spec or other statement in sales literature and other promotional documents.....watch out.
How many sales brochures have you seen that had 3 different HP's listed for a single tractor? How many of those HP ratings or other specs had an asterisk next to it? How many salesmen explain those HP ratings?
I guess that is more of a "buying/pricing" statement, but Soundguy brought up something that has always "irked" me about the tractor business.
People need to read their sales disclosures very closely these days...
<hr></blockquote>
You're right about that. When you see an " * " next to a spec or other statement in sales literature and other promotional documents.....watch out.
How many sales brochures have you seen that had 3 different HP's listed for a single tractor? How many of those HP ratings or other specs had an asterisk next to it? How many salesmen explain those HP ratings?
I guess that is more of a "buying/pricing" statement, but Soundguy brought up something that has always "irked" me about the tractor business.
Anonymous Poster
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In response to the AM General comment...
AMC (American Motors Corporation) acquired the Jeep brand from the Kaiser Corporation in 1970. In 1971, AMC formed the AM General subsidiary for military and special purpose vehicles. (Mail Jeeps, military Jeeps). In 1983, AM General was sold to LTV Corp. AM General, of course, builds the HUMVEE. Renco purchased AM General from LTV in 1992. General Motors purchased the marketing rights to the Hummer name in 2000. GM pays AM General to build the Hummer H1 and Hummer H2 at AM General facilities in Mishawaka, IN. The H2 is based on the full-size GMC/Chevy pickups.
http://www.amgeneralcorp.com/ - AM General's home page
http://www.hummer.com/ - Hummer
Of interest, AMC bought Wheel Horse in 1975, and sold it in 1986 to Toro.
AMC (American Motors Corporation) acquired the Jeep brand from the Kaiser Corporation in 1970. In 1971, AMC formed the AM General subsidiary for military and special purpose vehicles. (Mail Jeeps, military Jeeps). In 1983, AM General was sold to LTV Corp. AM General, of course, builds the HUMVEE. Renco purchased AM General from LTV in 1992. General Motors purchased the marketing rights to the Hummer name in 2000. GM pays AM General to build the Hummer H1 and Hummer H2 at AM General facilities in Mishawaka, IN. The H2 is based on the full-size GMC/Chevy pickups.
http://www.amgeneralcorp.com/ - AM General's home page
http://www.hummer.com/ - Hummer
Of interest, AMC bought Wheel Horse in 1975, and sold it in 1986 to Toro.
Anonymous Poster
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Concerning JD having used different shades of green over the years... I would think that unless they have a trademark or patent on a specifically designed shade, and only if another company was using that EXACT shade, then they would have no case.
Case in point... Chrysler purchased American Motors (AMC) and the Jeep line. AM General had already been sold by AMC earlier. Chrysler just tried suing General Motors (GM) over the Hummer brand last year, saying the grill was too close to the Jeep grill. GM counter-sued. GM ended up winning. Chrysler had not done anything all the years AM General marketed the original Hummer, but when GM went to take the brand mainstream, then they had a beef. GM showed that the "trademark Jeep grill" was a farce. Jeep has used numerous different grills, some with 5 vertical bars, some with 7, .....
I think, and hope, that the same holds true for these trademark dress lawsuits. Any false statements should be dealt with, but a general color should not be an issue.
Case in point... Chrysler purchased American Motors (AMC) and the Jeep line. AM General had already been sold by AMC earlier. Chrysler just tried suing General Motors (GM) over the Hummer brand last year, saying the grill was too close to the Jeep grill. GM counter-sued. GM ended up winning. Chrysler had not done anything all the years AM General marketed the original Hummer, but when GM went to take the brand mainstream, then they had a beef. GM showed that the "trademark Jeep grill" was a farce. Jeep has used numerous different grills, some with 5 vertical bars, some with 7, .....
I think, and hope, that the same holds true for these trademark dress lawsuits. Any false statements should be dealt with, but a general color should not be an issue.
kevanos -
<font color=blue>AMC (American Motors Corporation) acquired the Jeep brand from the Kaiser Corporation in 1970</font color=blue>
Of course you left out American Bantam Car Co. (est. 1930) who designed the Jeep (1941), Willys-Overland who won the original contract to manufacture it, Ford who built it as well for war production requirements and then Kaiser comes in to the picture as it takes over Willys in 1953. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Markie61-
'Course this all ignores the fact that FORD was the company that actually "invented" the vertical slat grill and not Willys or Bantam! (look to the 1943 suit from the Federal Trade Commission where they file a "cease and desist" order that took effect in '48 against W-O.) But then since AMC filed for a trademark in 1979, (ignoring the Ford aspect - which means some questionable legality was in play), that is what is used for the basis of the current lawsuits.
So I guess it all boils down to the fact that if someone is dumb (yes, dumb) enough to buy something based solely on color or style because they ***think*** it is really made by someone else (e.g. "JD Green," "Kubota Orange", "NH Blue") - well, in my mind they are an idiot anyway and quite frankly, I have NO sympathy for those folks. All they'd have to do is go to the "other" dealership (JD for example) to realize the equipment is NOT identical, heck, not even similar!!! We aren't talking counterfit here! /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif)
If the dealer lies to them and tells them it is the same product (Jinma=JD, Futian=NH, Kioti=Kubota, etc.) that's one thing (of course I question someone's intelligence for putting so much stock in salesmen anyway - remember caveat emptor anyone? /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif), but colors and styling - come on folks - get a grip and grow your brain a little!
Anyone buying a piece of equipment that costs multiple thousands of dollars should have the intelligence beyond that of a 5 year old. They also have more than enough resources at their disposal to "get to the bottom" of any questions as to "who makes what." If they choose not to find out, its their laziness that is at fault.
I've yet to see any banners outside of a Chinese tractor dealership that says "We sell Jinma here - made by John Deere." Give me a break. I wish the various companies and consumers would grow up and quit whining. /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif Come on folks, take some responsibility and quit blaming everybody else!
<font color=blue>AMC (American Motors Corporation) acquired the Jeep brand from the Kaiser Corporation in 1970</font color=blue>
Of course you left out American Bantam Car Co. (est. 1930) who designed the Jeep (1941), Willys-Overland who won the original contract to manufacture it, Ford who built it as well for war production requirements and then Kaiser comes in to the picture as it takes over Willys in 1953. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Markie61-
'Course this all ignores the fact that FORD was the company that actually "invented" the vertical slat grill and not Willys or Bantam! (look to the 1943 suit from the Federal Trade Commission where they file a "cease and desist" order that took effect in '48 against W-O.) But then since AMC filed for a trademark in 1979, (ignoring the Ford aspect - which means some questionable legality was in play), that is what is used for the basis of the current lawsuits.
So I guess it all boils down to the fact that if someone is dumb (yes, dumb) enough to buy something based solely on color or style because they ***think*** it is really made by someone else (e.g. "JD Green," "Kubota Orange", "NH Blue") - well, in my mind they are an idiot anyway and quite frankly, I have NO sympathy for those folks. All they'd have to do is go to the "other" dealership (JD for example) to realize the equipment is NOT identical, heck, not even similar!!! We aren't talking counterfit here! /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif)
If the dealer lies to them and tells them it is the same product (Jinma=JD, Futian=NH, Kioti=Kubota, etc.) that's one thing (of course I question someone's intelligence for putting so much stock in salesmen anyway - remember caveat emptor anyone? /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif), but colors and styling - come on folks - get a grip and grow your brain a little!
Anyone buying a piece of equipment that costs multiple thousands of dollars should have the intelligence beyond that of a 5 year old. They also have more than enough resources at their disposal to "get to the bottom" of any questions as to "who makes what." If they choose not to find out, its their laziness that is at fault.
I've yet to see any banners outside of a Chinese tractor dealership that says "We sell Jinma here - made by John Deere." Give me a break. I wish the various companies and consumers would grow up and quit whining. /w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif Come on folks, take some responsibility and quit blaming everybody else!
