Niche segment oppurtunity

[Anomic]

I currently own a John Deere 950 for background. I’ve been researching some about the 25hp “limit” where there is a large price jump to go up in power.

3025d 18,000$
3035d 22,600$

I’m having a hard time finding bare engine prices but looking at zero turns that have the same unit with different engine options for example

scag turf tiger 72” 25hp Kubota 23,999
Scag tiger 72” 40hp vanguard 18799

loose numbers a 40hp gas is 5k less than 25hp diesel which is 4.5k less than 35hp diesel. the gas would need to be water cooled in a CUT application but a hypothetical John Deere 3040D (gas) could come in under 14,000

I’m curious what y’all think. I know operating zero turns a 40hp gas can do a lot more than a 25hp diesel but how would it do for CUT application? I used Deere for this example but it may be even more beneficial for the budget brands to widen the price gap be the name brands while beating performance of the 25hp machines.

I love my diesel but using different zero turns I can not imagine paying 5k more for a 25hp diesel vs 40hp gas and most would agree. I wonder if that same logic applies to the CUT

 

[2manyrocks]

Gasoline tractors used to be more commonplace when gas prices were .39 gallon. Then the market shifted to diesels mainly because they just are more efficient to run for farming operations. Diesels also tend to be more durable because the diesel tends to lube the cylinder walls.

I'm not sure that all the price increase over 25hp is due to HP alone. There are emissions requirements once they go over 25hp.

Does any manufacturer actually sell a gas powered tractor these days?

 

[4570Man]

The lawnmower gas burners are with rare exception much lighter duty. Up until the emissions garbage came along building an equally durable gas wouldn’t be drastically cheaper and wouldn’t be worth the trade off for half the fuel economy. Now days I’m surprised nobody is offering an industrial gas.

 

[Roadworthy]

$4600 appears to be a big jump to gain ten horsepower - especially when you consider they may use the same basic engine. However, there's more than meets the eye. The additional cost is for a diesel particulate filter and the computer needed to run it. I believe the warranty on the emissions stuff far exceeds the basic tractor warranty. You can't even begin to compare a 25 horsepower gasoline engine to a 25 horsepower diesel tractor engine.

 

[jeff9366]

In another year or two electric/battery powered subcompact tractors and zero turns will be entering the market. Wait.

 

[Anomic]

You can't even begin to compare a 25 horsepower gasoline engine to a 25 horsepower diesel tractor engine.

I agree completely. But I think you can compare one to a 40hp gas engine. I know I’m the zero turn world the 25’diesel performs about like a 30-32 gas.

 

[RSR]

I'm actually surprised manufacturers haven't pursued this either, but I'm sure there is a reason. The longevity of diesel engines makes sense for big AG operations. But, how many CUT owners are putting 10k+ hours on their tractors?

I look at it as follows. A standard car gas engine can easily last 150,000+ miles. If the average car velocity is 30 mph over that lifetime, that equates to 5,000 hours of run time.

At the average homeowner rate of use at 100 hrs/year that equates to 50 years of life. I think that would satisfy the needs of the vast majority of users, and could be a significant cost savings.

Although, maybe that would turn tractors into disposable commodities that depreciate in value like cars, whereas now the economics seem to be that tractors retain their value very well: likely due to the perceived, and actual, longevity of them, even if it never actually directly benefits the vast majority of consumers.

 

[MossRoad]

$4600 appears to be a big jump to gain ten horsepower - especially when you consider they may use the same basic engine. However, there's more than meets the eye. The additional cost is for a diesel particulate filter and the computer needed to run it. I believe the warranty on the emissions stuff far exceeds the basic tractor warranty. You can't even begin to compare a 25 horsepower gasoline engine to a 25 horsepower diesel tractor engine.

HP is HP is HP. It doesn't matter what produces it.

 

[MossRoad]

I currently own a John Deere 950 for background. I’ve been researching some about the 25hp “limit” where there is a large price jump to go up in power.

3025d 18,000$
3035d 22,600$

I’m having a hard time finding bare engine prices but looking at zero turns that have the same unit with different engine options for example

scag turf tiger 72” 25hp Kubota 23,999
Scag tiger 72” 40hp vanguard 18799

loose numbers a 40hp gas is 5k less than 25hp diesel which is 4.5k less than 35hp diesel. the gas would need to be water cooled in a CUT application but a hypothetical John Deere 3040D (gas) could come in under 14,000

I’m curious what y’all think. I know operating zero turns a 40hp gas can do a lot more than a 25hp diesel but how would it do for CUT application? I used Deere for this example but it may be even more beneficial for the budget brands to widen the price gap be the name brands while beating performance of the 25hp machines.

I love my diesel but using different zero turns I can not imagine paying 5k more for a 25hp diesel vs 40hp gas and most would agree. I wonder if that same logic applies to the CUT

Why would a 40hp gas engine need to be water cooled in a CUT?
I've got a 25HP Kohler gas in my little PT425. Air cooled. I could easily swap out a larger air cooled gas engine into it if I had the space in the engine compartment.

What you are probably going to get with a diesel VS a gas is much better fuel economy and much longer engine life. But a 40hp gas turning hydraulic pumps is going to provide 15 more HP to those pumps than a 25hp diesel. That's a fact.

 

[Anomic]

Why would a 40hp gas engine need to be water cooled in a CUT?

I was thinking that for the continuous work at rated hp. You are right there are air cooled engines in applications that are similar.
As far as the hours comments I think I agree that 1000-1500 hours and it would start to get tired. But a new gas motor would be in the range of 3000$
The way prices are going I just see a market to come in 4000$ less (or more) than a 25hp diesel with more capability.