Backhoe No hydraulic power to bucket or backhoe!

[J_J]

Drain some of the fluid in a glass jar and let it sit for a while. Then compare it to some new fluid.

Install a hydraulic gage and monitor the pressure, if any, but that is a clue also.

 

[WilliamBos]

I agree. Looks like water contamination. Do you run it for only a few minutes at a time alot? Oil may not be getting hot enough to burn off the condensation. Could be time for a fluid/filter change.

 

[mrman]

Hi folks,

It has been a while since I have been online. Yes, I changed the fluid and found it was almost like 2 liquids draining out - one like hyd fluid and the other more milky. I am certain moisture got it there somehow. when I pulled the filler cap, I could see moisture droplets condensed on the inside of the tube. After changing the fluid and filling to the proper level the sight glass looks like it should - clear, like oil to just under the top of the full mark. When I changed it, the strainer filter (looks like a big bolt requiring removal of rear left tire to clean) did capture a bunch of what looked like an excessive amount of metal filings. I showed them to a few guys who know tractors and hydraulics... they said it is normal and suspect it is probably the first time it had ever been checked... we guess even though the dealer performed the full service @ 50 hours, they probably didn't clean this strainer since it requires rear wheel removal. As an aside, I followed the manual and pulled the drain plug first, then later pulled the big strainer bolt. When pulling out the bolt I could feel stuff that was stuck to the strainer screen catch on the housing as I extracted the bolt... so some junk was left in the case. In retrospect (and how I will do it the next time) I should have pulled the strainer bolt FIRST and let all the fluid drain out of this hole.... then later pull the drain plug. This way, if any junk scrapes off the bolt, it will get flushed out anyway.

So my dad tricked me in November "just bring the tractor to my house for the afternoon".... well here we are 5 months later and I think I have finally convinced him to let me take it back home . Recall, my original problem was that the hoe functions worked, but just not with a great deal of force. Yesterday dad he was hoeing and this time there was total loss of pressure to the hoe. The FEL worked perfectly so it isn't a pump issue. He said the boom, dipper and hoe would not do anything. He shut the tractor off, waited a few secs and started it up - everything worked again. What could be going on here? is there a pressure relief valve that could be sticking open impacting the hoe but not the FEL?

 

[J_J]

Check the QD's.

 

[mrman]

ok... 24 hours later my dad now remembers some "gentle" squeeling when not touching any controls (guessing it was one of the blow by valves). Then when he would try to move the hoe, somewhat louder squeeling was present.\

so about your Quick Disconnect comment... none of them are leaking and in fact they have never been disconnected from new... you think that they can plug up or one of the valves in the QD might be stuck closed? I didn't know this would be possible with a QD. next time it happens I will give them a twist/wiggle.

On another note... today I discovered a minor hyd fluid leak from the power steering module thingy immediately under the steering wheel. There are 4 hoses that go to/from it. I wonder if this leak could also be introducing air in the lines. Anyway, none of my 3 manuals (tractor, FEL and hoe) show any info on this device as far as which lines do what and a parts break down. It looks like there is a plate that separates it in 2 pieces... possible leak there. Also, I am guessing there is an o-ring where the steering wheel shaft goes into this module... could be a leak there. I don't think it is a hose because the side and top of the module is wet... so unless the tractor has been upside down... or hyd fluid can leak defying gravity, I am guessing it is leaking near the top of this module. Looking back I recall reading yesterday a post from someone indicating things to watch out for with this tractor and the comment was "don't use the steering wheel to pull yourself up on the tractor". I have done this several times and wonder if I damaged the module some how... does anyone have a parts blow up picture?

 

[ray66v]

"don't use the steering wheel to pull yourself up on the tractor". I have done this several times

The chances are, the previous owner did the damage to the steering valve. Assuming your in the average weight category, it takes more than several times pulling on it, to do it in.

If I remember correctly, there was a poster who went directly to the manufacturer of the steering valve, for parts, and information.

 

[mrman]

OK... here is my update.... good progress today

Steering Motor Leak: I found another thread focusing on the leaky steering motor here and there is no need to discuss the same topic on multiple threads. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-operating/123494-how-repair-leak-gc2310.html

Hoe and stabilizers won't move: I gave a thorough assessment of the situation in person today. Here are the symptoms:
-hyd fluid/filter changes 20 hours ago and hyd strainer was cleaned during fluid change (correct level), 250 hours on tractor, 2nd owner.
-when tractor running, drive forward/backward, power steering, Front end loader - all worked perfectly with lots of lifting power in the FEL. This indicated that the problem must have been only with the hoe hoses/cylinder/control unit.
-stabilizers and hoe controls will move at most ~1" or less when the control lever is activated then the MAIN pressure release valve (not the one in the hoe control unit) cuts in and mild squealing can be heard.
-I checked the hoe quick disconnects (QDs). The return line QD was easy to disconnect and check. The balls were not stuck. The Power Beyond hose was the same. However, there was so much pressure on the high pressure hose (with the tractor was OFF) - I could not get the QD apart. Also, the hoe controls were really stiff too - even when tractor was off.
-With tractor off and hoe up off the ground, I tried to manually push the hoe clockwise (when viewed from the sky looking down) while the swing control lever was activated. Normally this would allow the boom to swing quite freely. However, I was barely able to move it in one direction about 10 degrees or less.
-Checking the tractor manual on pg 74 in the Hydraulic System section it says "symptom" With control lever in RAISE position, relief valve blows", possible cause: "poorly adjusted rod on lift control lever". I noticed the 3pt hitch control lever (which I have never ever intentionally touched) was in the full up position. As soon as I moved it down a little bit toward my feet, the hoe hydraulics worked perfectly again! I also noticed that when the 3pt hitch control lever was in full down position and I take the drive lever from 4WD to 2WD, the driver lever will bang into the 3 point hitch control lever... this seemed like an obvious symptom of a misadjusted lever.
-So I have found the source of my problem but for other folks who may have to keep troubleshooting, here are other things I was about to try next: 1) wiggle loader controls at same time as hoe controls. 2) shut tractor on/off several times (dad said this fixed it for him on a previous occurrence).

My dipper arm cylinder is still probably 50% down on force compared to what I remember when I first got the tractor but I think this is a problem with that specific circuit which is way better than a global backhoe problem.

Questions: how did the 3pt hitch lever get out of adjustment? Does anyone know how to properly adjust it? Currently I am leaving it in the full lower position but this is a band aid, not a fix.

Ok, Ok,.... another long post... so shoot me... hopefully someone else can more quickly diagnose their problem after reading my novel.:licking:

 

[irvingj]

I'm certainly not going to shoot you... actually, I'll say "Thanks!" for a great report! Not sure when, but I bet your info will come in handy some day!

 

[David Devuono]

I can't be of much help but its interesting to hear these issues. I have not had an issue with my old massey (except pump is week) but on my mini Kubota if I try to lift something that stalls out my FEL, often the 3PTH lever will kick out. I just move it back to operating position and it will be okay as long as I don't max it out. I can see where someone with a Hoe and Fel who does not routinely engage the 3PH lever as they are always on aux hydraulics. I have learned from the sound my tractor makes when maxing it out when to back off or how to quickly reengage the lever. I know nothing about your model of tractor, but on the kubota I have a hydraulic switch to go between 3PH and aux hydraulics, both then controlled by the 3ph lever. Make sure the switch is pointed towards aux hydraulics and not partway between.

 

[mrman]

PROBLEM FIXED!!!

Hi folks, I have done a pile of research on the topic of hydraulics on this tractor. The feedback rod (which prevents the 3 pt hitch from raising too far or too low) has adjusting nuts on it. All symptoms told me that the nuts were out of adjustment because with the hoe on (and the 3 pt hitch in the full raise position) the raise/lower handle should be able to be placed in the full raise position but should spring back to neutral as soon as you take your hand of the handle. My handle was simply staying in the full raise position. I went to the dealer and saw that their 5 similar tractors all behaved just as I expected (springing to neutral)... but their adjustment nuts were ~ the same positions mine were in. I noticed that as soon as the rear spring contacted the feedback rod, the handle on the new tractors would want to move to the neutral position. Even when my rear spring was fully compressed my handle wasn't moving. I called Mike at NorthWooods Power (nice fella... really helpful) and he said that the linkage for the levers and shafts can corrode, even where the shaft goes into the hyd control valve that is directly under your left knee (under the seat and cover). If I lubed these things, maybe my handle will spring back as it should. He did caution me that it is very hard on the pump to not have this issue resolved. Also, even though it was only my hoe that was being effected, he said that all other hyd functions will eventually be effected. So I set out to "dip the tractor in oil" and see if that helped anything. When looking at the levers and rods that moved, my 2wd/4wd linkage and the 3pt hitch raise control linkage would touch when in 4wd&full raise (going from memory... could have been the other way around) and I remembered the new tractors did not do this. Then I leaned on the fender and presto.. the 3pt hitch handle sprung into the neutral position. Upon closer inspection, I could see that the 3pt hitch raise/lower handle was bent and there was enough friction between the handle and fender cut out to prevent the feedback control rod spring from moving the handle. I put some muscle against the handle, straightening it out and now all works great!!!:thumbsup:

Lesson learned: do not get off of the right side of the tractor as this lever (when in the low or neutral setting) can get hooked by a jacket and easily bent.

It could have been any one of the things I discussed in all my posts in this thread... so hopefully it will help someone who isn't lucky enough to just have a bent lever.