No more waiting--$4 diesel is here

[RobJ]

The SOB's won't let us drill offshore or in Alaska. They also won't allow any new refinery's to be built. How's that for progress. Now you know why we're paying $4.00+ a gallon. At least that's part of the story.

Actually refinerys are keeping up with demand pretty good and the us current crude supplys are holding. Now I totally agree we should start more domestic drilling, starting with California!!

But there are no new refineries being built...but many are being modified and that doesn't get reported. We took ours from 30,000 bbd, added another 55,000bbd unit, then added a max capacity vacumm tower of 30,000 bbd.

Diesel is a lot higher now because of the ULSD that's required. Hydro treating the oil is more costly and is required now. ALL diesel will have to be ULSD by 2012 which means we'll have to convert our plant. I'm not a petro engineer but I think we have to also put in a refomer as part of the process. Then we'll be able to make gas to. It's not cheap to convert and the margins for products isn't that great at the moment.

This is not your grandpa's diesel oil anymore!!

 

[IH3444]

Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash

 

[tlbuser]

Diesel is a lot higher now because of the ULSD that's required. Hydro treating the oil is more costly and is required now. ALL diesel will have to be ULSD by 2012 which means we'll have to convert our plant. I'm not a petro engineer but I think we have to also put in a refomer as part of the process. Then we'll be able to make gas to. It's not cheap to convert and the margins for products isn't that great at the moment.

This is not your grandpa's diesel oil anymore!!

So,while your refinery goes "offline" for repairs, another refinery is above peak capacity trying to keep up? Does ULSD truly cost more per barrel to produce or does the refinery upgrades get tossed in to the mix?
Oh, and lest we forget the likes of Al Gore (inventor of the internet ) so that now the traders know exactly when a disruption in the world oil supply MIGHT occur so they can raise the daily price.

So, who's really profiting from it no matter the world price? The oil companies and wall street most likely. I'm sure not posting record profits

 

[petegoud]

We seem to be a panic driven species. I remember about 40 years ago when we had a toilet paper shortage. Everyone went out and stocked up with the stuff, driving the price up, just what the producers of it wanted.

 

[MikePA]

simple economics

If it cost you $5.00 in materials to make a widget but because of speculation in the widget making materials market you knew it was going to cost you $9.00 to build your next widget, what would you charge today? If you charged anything less than $9.00 you wouldn't have enough money to buy the materials for your next widget. Simple economics.

 

[RobJ]

So,while your refinery goes "offline" for repairs, another refinery is above peak capacity trying to keep up? Does ULSD truly cost more per barrel to produce or does the refinery upgrades get tossed in to the mix?
Oh, and lest we forget the likes of Al Gore (inventor of the internet ) so that now the traders know exactly when a disruption in the world oil supply MIGHT occur so they can raise the daily price.

So, who's really profiting from it no matter the world price? The oil companies and wall street most likely. I'm sure not posting record profits

When a small refinery goes offline..generally called a turn around, everything is planned to the hour. the turn around usually only lasts a weekend, 1 day, etc. Most have 2 main towers so they can run 1 or the other or both. Larger refinerys (say 300,000 bbd) will usually only take down pieces of the refinery at a time, other refinerys will sell them feedstocks to keep the other parts working. This is a pretty simple explaination of course.

If I recall to preform the ULSD in the hydro unit, you need hydrogen, you either have to buy the hydrogen or make it. I believe the reformer makes hydrogen. So I'm sure all of this is in the cost of the end product whether you are selling corn, clothes or diesel.

Then when you create ULSD what are you taking out? Sulfur of course, so now you have to deal with this. I understand some sell and some give the stuff away. Of course a big company may also have a fertilizer plant to run the sulfur through.

Ask a refiner about the margins 1 year ago today and he'd say his kids are going to an ivy leage school, ask him today and it's a state school. In the past I understand refiners see little margins or have a big quarter then try and hold on for the rest of the year. Margins might be better in the gas market, not sure. But surging crude prices (mostly fundamental information) and slowing product prices and they don't make much. Help a refiner? Pay $5 for gas!! Want his kids to attend night school, $2. a gallon.

 

[T185]

Same price here in Erie, PA. Went to $3.999 yesterday. I am betting on $5 diesel and $4 gas before summer ends at this rate. What I am supprised at is gas stayed at $3.19 and diesel went from $3.89 to 3.99 with no movement in gas prices, how the heck can diesel keep going up and gas does nothing, sounds like a goverment/oil company conspericy to keep the super effecient diesels out of the country. With diesel more than gas, nobody will want the nice little diesel pickups and cars they have in Europe that get super mpg's What a total crock of a country we live in!!!

Last time I checked the you still can pick up a passport for about $100. Feel free to leave anytime you want

 

[artfull dodger]

I dont mind driving a small car, espicaly if it has a nice effecient diesel, but get on the interstate in rush hour traffic with guys that drive a Super Duty for no other reason than they can and want to and see if you feel safe. If that huge pickup was to hit a small car, it would **** near drive over it. Now I realize we need the big diesel pickups for hauling our tractors and other hauling chores. But come on guys, we dont need to drive them daily to work or just cause we feel like it. No flaiming, I realize it might be your only vehicle right now, but if one can afford a new 40-50K pickup, you can afford a small used car to use as a daily driver. We need to start being smarter in the way we drive and use our resources in this country. Once we get moved, I am planning to build an old CJ5 jeep with a 4BT Cummins diesel in it. Its been done before by many and gets in the upper 30's for milage. It will be simple with no computers and sensors and with the fuel treated, it should last my life time. There are things that the Europeans have the leg up on us at, one being small diesel powered cars and no so many huge pickups ect on the road. Granted they are kind of forced into that way of life with thier fuel prices, extra tax on fuel, extra tax on vehicles that weigh over a certian ammount or have an engine over a certian size. I think we will be that way eventualy, not by the extra taxes, but by the cost of the fuel, which in turn will drive up the cost of everything else, from the food we buy at the grocery to the toys for our kids at wal-mart. We shop at the local save-a-lot and in the last year I have been amazed on how much thier prices have gone up. The trucking companys just pass on the extra fuel costs as a surcharge and we, the consumer, are paying for it, both in our fuel tanks and at the stores. There is a breaking point out there somewhere, when the cost of everything will cause something huge to happen to our economy, I dont know what that is or when it will happen, but I have a feeling, it will be huge. Just my 2 cents as our family tries to survive these fuel prices. I am glad I sold my diesel suburban before the price skyrocketed! Cheers Mike and Michele T

 

[ficord]

Its simple don't vote for anybody not willing to drill for our own oil.
Don't vote for anybody willing to raise the gas tax.
Don't vote for anybody saying we have to suffer.
Don't vote for anybody not willing to say they are going to do all they can to bring down gas and oil prices.
Windmills and alternative sources are great but they won't heat my house NOW. I think someone running on bringing down oil prices will win hands down.
Why do we need three grades of gasoline? How much lower would gas be just by shipping one blended grade of gas all around.
Why does California need 14 different blends of gasoline. To please who??
Why can't we use our military bases for new refineries.
Don't vote for the person who require the 14 different blends the person who says No new drilling and No new refineries.
Every one out there is not involved with the oil companies There are companies looking for alternative ways when they perfect them we will have them.
Vote to lower energy cost today , Don't vote to raise them more to force us to suffer. Otherwise only the rich politicians will br able to afford to do anything. That's there plan make us suffer to save oil, but they will still afford to buy it we won't. 985.00 last month to heat my house and that is with keeping it at 60 at night and when not home and 65 when we are home.
Yeah I'll vote for the guy that says I will have to pay more for energy.
I live in todays world with my income now. Not in a dream world of tomorrow.

 

[orezok]

Just me talking, but have you noticed that the people who do the most complaining are driving their diesel dually's down the freeway at 15 or more above the limit. If everyone just slowed down to somewhere near the speed limit it would cut use by 5 - 10%. Do you have any idea what a 5 - 10% reduction in use would do to the price?

I'm just as guilty as the next guy in wanting to get there ASAP, but we do have some control.