No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.)

   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.)
  • Thread Starter
#21  
Unfortunatly all I have been able to do is push the tractor in the garage and drain the oil. The good news is that there were no metal shavings or parts that drained with the oil.
I am hoping to get to it this weekend.

Thanks for the inquiries, I will keep you upto date on the progress. I am a little worried what I will find when the pan is removed.
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.) #22  
Any news on his one? I've been following it and i'm curious as to what if anything you've found.
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.) #23  
I am not familiar with the engine you have, But i will say maybe there is a possibility of a bypass stuck open? In cold weather the bypass will definitly be opened when the oil is cold, and then as the oil wamed up it will close. But if it stayed open(stuck) it would then bypass and show very low oil pressure. Did you try to start the engine cold again? if you did and there was oil pressure, i would check the bypass system wherever that may be.
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.)
  • Thread Starter
#24  
Sorry it has been so long since I posted this question and I know everyone wants to know the outcome. Last night was the first chance I had to work on the tractor. I pulled the oil sump cover off and there was a washer lodged in the pump impeller that stopped the pump from turning.
After removing the filter screen and the bottom filter housing I counted all the hardware and none had falled off, so this washer was a freebe from the factory thrown in for good luck, but not for me.
The single bolt that holds the pump shaft assembly to the block is very ugly to get at. I needed to do some custom grinding on my 13mm box end to get in there. After about 2 hours of fumbling at this bolt it was backed out.

Now here is the problem- Does anyone know how to easily remove the pump assembly. The tab on the pump that the retaining bolt fits through is located in an indent of the block and it cant be lowered as it contacts the sides and bottom of the indent. I am not sure if my engine is of a different configuration (380YDS) but the block is in 2 parts, the lower area (oil sump) is attached to the engine block. This oil sump mating surface(joint) is where the oil pump retaining bolt is attached. The only way I can see to get it out is if the block bottom is separated. This would mean the complete dissasembly of the front end of the tractor since the front frame is attached to this area of the engine block.

Please Please Please tell me I am wrong and there is something I am missing as this would be a 20 hour job to replace an oil pump.


I still dont know the condition of the gear on the cam shaft until the pump is removed.

All help is appreciated
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.) #25  
From your description, I am assuming you are talking about the notch in the side of the oil sump(#60) located just below part #37(oil pump retaining bolt?) in the attached picture. I am assuming you removed part #64(cover plate) to gain access to the pump? You may have to remove part #60(oil sump). I will look at my tractor when I get home so I can see what you are talking about IRT removing the sump.

Just to confirm, the pump assembly does not have enough play in it with the bolt removed to either slide or twist away from the sump sidewall to allow the tab to clear the notch?
 

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   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.)
  • Thread Starter
#26  
I have not been able to find a parts breakdown of my engine. My engine parts book has the picture you attached but is differnet than the supplied engine configuration. My oil pump retaining bolt is internal and does not also provide suport for the sump(#60). On my engine the oil sump is the same shape as the block and is used as the integral part of the front frame extenders. Therefore I cannot remove it like a typical oil pan, I would need to remove the entire front end of the tractor and possibly split it to do so. Also my oil sump cover is only a cover and when removed exposes the entire engine from below.

Maybe they put a different engine configuration in this tractor

The pump will drop only about 1/2" before it contacts the notch and will only twist slightly from side to side before coming in contact with the block wall.

I will try to take a couple of pictures to make this easier to see.

I have attached a link to a 30hp engine that is more like the way my engine block is constructed.
http://www.farmprotractors.com/FarmPro/parts_engine/30CylinderBlock.pdf
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.) #27  
I crawled under my tractor this afternoon and mine is just as you described yours(sump cover covers the whole bottom of the sump). I also see your dilema. I didn't realize the forward frame rails attached to the sump when I was under there checking bolt tightness a few months ago. I thought they were bolted to the side of the engine block.

Unless there is some way to slide/twist the oil pump assembly inward to get the tab to clear the notch in the side of the sump, I don't see any other alternative to separating the sump from the engine block. This operation appears to me to be a pretty tricky one, perhaps more so than splitting the transmission to get to the clutch.

How much more clearance do you need(how much is the tab protruding into the notch in the sump wall) to get the thing out?
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.)
  • Thread Starter
#28  
Ron,

It is a hard spot to see the tab, but it looks appox 3/4 inch would get it out. This is only a guess as it is hiden by the pump.
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.) #29  
Well all design is a comprimise but I really hate it when something that should be simple, requires a complex procedure to deal with. 3/4" sounds like a lot to overcome. If you can post a picture, perhaps we can come up with another idea.

I guess if I were dealing with this problem and had no other alternative for pump removal, I would split the tractor at the sump. Block the front wheels and support the rear of the frame rails on jack stands and wedges to still allow access to all the oil sump bolts but not allow the frame rails or sump to move down as the bolts connecting the sump to engine block are removed. Remove the radiator and disconect the battery. Disconnect the steering hydraulic lines back near the rear of the frame rails. Remove the drive shaft that connects the transfer case to the front differential. Block the rear wheels.

Using a combination of floor jack under the creeper box and engine hoist connected to the engine lift points at the top of the engine, lift the engine block up, leaving the oil sump and frame rails setting on the jack stands. At this point the rear portion of the tractor, setting on the rear wheels, will be hanging by the engine hoist and the jack under the front of the transmission. Once the block is raised enough to clear the sump, you could continue lifting the block untill you got enough clearance to remove the pump or you could shift the engine block to the left slightly to gain enough clerance to remove the oil pump. If the gasket at the block-sump union is damaged, it will also need to be replaced. This of course dosn't address the potential for damage to the bearings that could have been caused by oil starvation.

Once the pump is repaired/replaced and re-installed, carefully lower the block down onto the sump and re-install the bolts to re-join the block to the sump.

This procedure, if not done properly, is full of opportunities to get hurt real bad and requires suitable stands/blocks, a substantial jack and hoist to safely lift and support the weights involved. It also requires a good ammount of solid floor space to accomplish safely. If I wasn't fully confident I could do it safely, I would find a mechanic to discuss/look at the problem then load the thing onto a trailer for a trip to the shop. I don't recall if you mentioned how you came by this tractor, but this is a manufacturing defect requiring a substantial ammount of labor to repair with only 5 hours on the clock. If it was through a dealer, if they even remotely stand by what they sell then I would hope they would be willing to compensate you for repairs or replace the machine.

Good Luck.
 
   / No oil pressure in 224 (under 5 hrs.) #30  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( s if I were dealing with this problem and had no other alternative for pump removal, I would split the tractor at the sump. )</font>

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why not just drop the front driveshaft housing?

//greg//
 

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