No or only slight movement on front loader

Leejohn · Apr 4, 2008

Rwolf
I know you have checked and rechecked everything, but this is interesting to me. If you are getting 1000 psi inline flow. Deadhead it like someone else said. If that gets your psi up that oil has to be going somewhere. By your post I don't think you did, but I have to ask. You didn't or the shop put a T in the pressure line?
I looked at your att. and should work. How long has this been going on?

Sure well be interesting to know what it ends up being. Lee

RWolf · Apr 5, 2008

It will be interesting for me also. To answer you question no "T" in the pressure line. And if when you say deadheading meaning I get the 1000psi when I run the 3pt cylinder to the end of travel yes.

I'm going to review what I've done mainly so I and others might see where I goofed up.

> original problem FEL worked but got to a point where it wouldn't hold much weight. Also slight leak in loader valve.
> hyd. shop said pump was bad (said about 500psi). They replaced pump with one that they recommended (haldex 1-2gpm). Although slow system worked.
> verified pump too small for FEL and ordered haldex 4-8gpm pump.
> Because ports were another size larger I replaced suction line and outlet line to FEL loader. Also during this time removed bypass valve. reassembled incorrectly first time but went back and corrected mistake.
> Initial hookup on pump was reversed (I believe) because I noted fluid flow in the oposite direction in my tank and also couldn't get any pressure at all on inline guage.
> And latest is I removed all inline hoses and insured they were clear of obstacles, replaced filter and added shim (washer) behind spring in bypass valve.
> Results after all this is when 3pt deadheads motor will lug down significately.

After all that with controls in neutral zero pressure. Engaging FEL controls (either lift or curl) results in no action. Engaging 3pt control results in motion of 3pt. and slight pressure on guage. When 3pt "deadheads" pressure will rise to about 1000psi (BTW: this is where the hyd. shop said they set the pressure to). With 3pt deadheaded and activating FEL lift I get a slight motionbut it can not lift it's own weight. Curl gets nothing.

I think I've covered everything. What gets me is it doesn't pass the make sense test that the FEL control would die all at once. And I still have doubts if maybe the pump is plumbed backwards.

Thanks.

kennyd · Apr 5, 2008

Where is the relief valve that you added a shim washer to? If it's NOT the one on the loader valve then I think you need to find that one.
The fluid has to be going through that valve...and since you said when the pressure gets up to 1000psi the loader moves slightly, then that is the relief valve I suspect is the problem. Clear as mud?

RWolf · Apr 5, 2008

Yes the relief valve is on the loader valve. When I took it apart everything looks normal (as well as I can guess). As Wayne instructed I was able to reassemble ok. One thing I was thinking but I don't know the internal workings of a control valve is the possiblity that when the fluid enters the control valve that it enters one chamber which is faulty and is supose to pass to another chamber for the other spool. I just don't know and I'm grasping at straws. I can only think that if I can't find the problem I'm going to have to get another spool valve. I'm frustrated.

Thanks.

Leejohn · Apr 6, 2008

Rwolf I think I would do like Kennyd is saying. Man a new valve isn't cheap the releif valve could be around 50.00 ??? You must have a ton in it now. I guess you could be right about a bad casting and if it is I'll be calling the valve Co. for some help.
Don't give up yet. Lee

RWolf · Apr 6, 2008

LeeJohn I don't plan on giving up on this. I took the day off to clear my head and do a few chores around the house and ranch. I will be tackling it again tomorrow. I've also gotten some great advice through some PM's on here. Everyone has been great. I've read just about all of the recent posts on the other sections (I really like the projects section). Back on the subject yes I've put some money into it but had the hyd. shop did there job I would not be here now.

As a side note one thing I've noticed is I may be wrong but Hydraulic fluid is generally a translucent to a light cream color (and I'm not refering to contaminated fluid) and when I drained it the last time I noticed a blackish color. What I'm wondering is this color could it be something like an oring has gone south. Just wondering.

Again thanks.

Leejohn · Apr 7, 2008

Rwolf orings on valves would be only to keep oil from leaking to the outside of the valve and shouldn't get into the system. The only other place you might get parts of a oring would be from a cyl. and I forgot all about a bad cyl. but with curl and lift not working I would think you have 2 bad cyl.?? Put plugs into the A & B ports and try to load the valve. With you having the releif valve apart be ready to shut down the tractor if it loads it to much or you well blow a hose. This is just in case you didn't get valve back together right. You might not be able to pull back to N just turn tractor off.
That would be nice if it is a bad Cyl. I bet ken also forgot about that. If you have a 5000psi gauge put it into one of the A or B ports and you can see if the releif valve is working right and it well help to know if you need to turn tractor off before blowing a hose.
Lee

Wayne County Hose · Apr 7, 2008

RWolf, your fluid is very old. The only other thing I can attribute the dark color to is outside or cross contamination. Either way, prepare to change it when you find the problem. 2nd thought, I would change the fluid, filters, and clean the screen now, and then when you're done with this issue. Also check your suction hoses.

2 cylinders being faulty in the way this all happened is unlikely, but definately a possibility. Easy to check, remove the upper hose from your FEL lift. This is if the rods point up. Now, operate FEL lift. If oil comes squirting out the cylinder and there's no cylinder movement, piston seals are bad.

RWolf · Apr 7, 2008

Well There are some old hoses but the oil is only a couple of months old. Not able to work on it today so I hope to get on it tomorrow. You've all given me several things to look at. One thing is I've got to hit up the hardware store tomorrow so I can get the correct size of fittings for my gauge. I'll post again after I get these tests done. I know with all your help I will find the problem. Thanks.

john_bud · Apr 7, 2008

This is just a crazy thought, but if you had some trash in the system and it made it to the cylinder, could that trash have buggered up (techincal term) the cylinder seals?

Will the loader push down hard enough to lift the tractor?