No power steering on a Terramite

[wdchyd]

doing a tear-down you'll know if the whole pump is worth it......you wouldn't want to just change the adapter plate if there was other issues with the pump......but there again, it wouldn't hurt anything just changing the adapter plate, I guess I'm just overly cautious and suspicious of pump failures (but that's just me)

taking it apart is straight forward, a new seal kit would be handy

clean, clean and fussy clean will be a must if you put it back together (I can talk you through it)

 

[cstamm81]

I would imagine the whole assembly is built from off the shelf parts most likely? Reason I ask is I would assume the trans and adapter plate could be purchased elsewhere for less money than going back to TM. I did not notice data plates on the parts, but they may have part numbers etched into the housings. Should the seal kits be easy to locate and purchase online?
I will most likely try to gauge what it will take to tear out the whole assembly as one and go from there. I'm on the fence as far as tearing into the trans or just sticking to repairing or replacing the adapter plate. wdchyd, too bad we do not live closer! I'd easily be willing to pay for your help!

 

[wdchyd]

the model code on that pump is stamped on the mounting flange on the edge......with that model code those parts are avail

the seal kit for that is just a main shaft seal, seal for for/rev lever, gasket and a few orings

 

[the old grind]

cstamm81, you wouldn't have too much room to get things apart or back together, but I imagine you could just push the loader's gear pump out of the way with its hoses still connected to remove just the plate vs the main pump & trans too. If so, be sure your meticulous cleaning begins with the usual rinsing out or air-blasting any loose stuff that may fall into your work, and carefully capping hoses as they come off.

btw: I'm ok with two threads if it keeps us working together Anybody else, we're goin' on here too: Power Steering Issue Terramite T5C - Page 2

 

[cstamm81]

Yes the two thread scenario is a little annoying. I did not expect to get much response in the TM forum. I am leaning towards pulling everything. wdchyd may have me talked into a thorough inspection and seal replacements. I wish I had the cash to just buy an entire assembly from TM and be done with it. I suppose I would not learn anything that way so I will try to go about this in the most economical way possible.

 

[cstamm81]

I pulled the whole assembly about an hour ago. Quite the dirty little beast but it came out fairly easily. I need to get some pipe plugs to cap all of the ports so I can really clean the housing well. It looks like the poppet relief spring is missing? There looks to be a hollow plug knocked in and the remnants of a spring or threads in there.
wdchyd, I checked out your profile and read about your business. If I decide to, would you be interested in taking a look at the whole assembly? I would ship it up to you and pay you via paypal or whatever you prefer. Or, would you recommend me to just take it to a local hydraulic shop? I know there are a few around, but like everything else I am certain there are good ones and bad ones, I am not sure how specialized this assembly is. I may still disassemble myself, but with a 7 month old and a really busy work schedule I have little time for these things.

 

[wdchyd]

Cstamm

There's several hyd shops in your area.....one that comes to mind would be Turner Hydraulics in Carlisle, PA (owner Dan Turner)

You need a hyd shop that is in tune with piston pump repairs and does lapping......the better shops have pump test stands, but don't test smaller pumps anyways

I'm thinking if you clean it up and take some close-ups we should be able to talk you through.......

 

[cstamm81]

So certain shops COULD put my pumps on a test stand and test, but normally will not with these smaller pumps? How else would a shop know if a pump was creating the pressure and flow as per specs? As far as Turner Hydraulics, do you know if his shop is one as you described is in tune with piston pump repairs and does lapping?

What I am after is 1. for the power steering to work correctly after the adapter plate issue is corrected and 2. for the hydrostatic trans and rear gear pump to work like new. I figure if I am doing this I might as well do it right.

All fittings seem to be normal NPT, can I just pick up cheap black steel male and female pipe caps to plug all ports before I give it a thorough scrubbing?

 

[wdchyd]

Yes, most will only test them if there's a specific problem...Not necessary for a basic repair you need...Larger more complicated pumps require presetting pressures and null adjustments for neutral......

You need only to inspect for abnormal wear on piston shoes, swash plate, rotation group.....all can be seen fairly easy

You just want to rule out any further damage to the pump.......you don't want your pump to look like this in Post #33

( http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/265294-hydraulic-problems-power-trac-1850-a-4.html )

Most pump repairs are simple, clean outside, open up and place parts on clean rags/paper, identify wear/broken parts, order parts, clean/clean/clean, reassemble with clean hands/tools, prelubricate moving parts (thin clean grease at piston shoes and valve plates), prefill case drains with hyd oil, reassemble on unit.....

All this work should include a complete cleaning of the reservoir tank and filter if you haven't already done so

Another word of caution would be to raise the drive wheels off the ground when doing a start-up......this will allow the pumps to purge themselves without putting any strain and be safe if the tractor wanted to move.......you'll then be able to run the tractor through for/rev with no load to see if there's any trouble with the repaired pump

 

[cstamm81]

Thanks again. Well, if you are game to continue to answer a million questions I will tear into it and take close ups and we can see what lives in there. I will hopefully be able to pick up some NPT pipe plugs tomorrow at Lowe's and maybe get to clean the assembly thoroughly. This will be a learning experience...

 

[wdchyd]

Those threads are not pipe threads........those are ORB (oring boss) or SAE Oring (same thing)

cleaning the outside is helpfull (pressure washer before you take the hoses off) but the rinse internally with solvents or kerosene is the most important

 

[cstamm81]

This is what I was going by thinking the fittings were normal NPT ends. According to the TM book: All hoses are R2AT with male pipe thread ends. Then, when I look up this type of hose on McMaster Carr it says:

High-pressure hose meets SAE 100R2-AT. Use this hose only with Parker Series 30 fittings (sold individually). Vacuum rating is 28” Hg @ 72° F, except hose with 3/4” and 1” ID is rated 24” Hg @ 72° F.

Note: The integrity of SAE rating is dependent upon the use of hose, fittings, and components that meet SAE requirements and also upon using proper assembly methods. It is the responsibility of the consumer to test and monitor the hose and fittings to ensure they are appropriate for the intended applications.

Male fittings are zinc-plated steel and have NPT threads.

I'm under the impression NPT and NPTF are used interchangeably. So these fittings are DEFINITELY not normal NPT? Where can I source male and female caps to plug the lines and the ports on the pump, or is there another way to keep from getting dirt and cleaning solution inside? I want to clean the pump well before disassembly and clean out the tractor area where the pump had been leaking for years. Pump is already out so it's too late to pressure wash with it in place. Again, I really appreciate all of the help and guidance.

 

[wdchyd]

Sorry, I was thinking of the ports on the pump.....yes, they do use pipe thread adapters to go to the hoses many times

 

[cstamm81]

ok, that makes sense. I had some brass NPT plugs, threaded right on. I cleaned it up a bit but did not have time to disassemble.

 

[cstamm81]

well in talking with a forklift guy I deal with at work he recommended a local hydraulic shop. I took the whole assembly to them last week to have the entire thing gone over, hopefully to be made like new. I am supposedly getting the forklift companies reduced rates, so that should help. Counter guy told me they "should" be able to bench test it.
In the mean time, does anyone know where the hydraulic system strainer would most likely be located? I am assuming it is a metal mesh inside a return line? Any tips on how to clean out the hydraulic reservoir tank? I want to make sure I do everything in my power to go along with the repair and reinstallation of the pump assembly.

 

[wdchyd]

Couple tips:

along with clean oil, reservoir & filters......have the hyd shop show you where the case drain is on the repaired pump and fill it completely with clean fresh oil when you install it.......have the traction wheel motors off the ground to allow all air to purge out and allow the hyd system to excersise in the first few minutes of operation.....idle only during the start, rev up only after everything seems to be functioning properly.....I'd run it this way for at least 20 minutes before setting on the ground for the final breakin (easy does it for another 20 minutes on the ground)

 

[cstamm81]

As for cleaning the reservoir, just remove the tank and get all of the oil out and make sure there is no dirt? Or should I flush it with something? I have to find where the strainer is, new filter ready to go.
Case drain on pump, so just plug the ports, fill it up via the case drain, install pump? I'm assuming there should just be one main case drain for the entire assembly?
Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[wdchyd]

Yes, there are usually several ports (depending on how the pump is mounted)......one port is sufficient, it's usually the case drain hose that leads to the reservoir

if you can find the bottom of the reservoir try to get it rag clean, then kerosene works good for a final rinse if you can

 

[cstamm81]

the plot thickens.... I talked to the hydraulic shop today, not good news. Service guy told me one of their senior guys (15 ish years of experience) ripped everything apart and had never seen anything quite like it, service guy on phone agreed. He said very odd wear marks and pattern on the piston assembly, said it almost looked like the ends of the pistons were machined to a point? Also mentioned a large mark on the rear cover. He did not quite know what caused this, but we discussed the possibility of the external torque pump disintegrating and damaging the main pump. Sort of like what wdchyd mentioned earlier as a point to watch.
So, he is telling me major work needs to happen here. He thought him buying a refurbished pump or rebuilding the current one would cost about the same, around $1300!!. I mentioned that Terramite quoted me $1400 for the hydrostatic pump and charge pump, minus the rear gear pump. He told me to verify if that was new or refurbished, and suggested buying it without blinking if it was indeed new.
How does this all sound? Definitely bad news for me, as it looks like this could be worst case scenario.

 

[wdchyd]

that's too bad, but now is the time to find out the root of your troubles....more than likely the steering was just the first thing that showed it ugly head...now the next thing you need to concern yourself with is getting the wheel motors opened up and rinsed out and resealed.....

what you don't want is for the new pump to be contaminated by any foreign metal particles in the wheel motors rendering any warranty on your new pump void.......these hydrostats share the same oil in a continuous loop.......I wouldn't be too concerned with the aux gear pump cuz that oil will be returned back to tank filtered after the valves